Child Support Bill [H.L.] (Hansard, 22 July 1991)

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, perhaps I may add to what my noble friend Lord Renton said and say that I very much regret this decision and the grounds on which it is alleged to have been taken. It was said by my noble friend that the proposal to continue with the Bill—beginning now, at a quarter-past five in the afternoon—was for the convenience of the House. I do not believe that to be so. No doubt it is for the convenience of the usual channels. They have made these arrangements and it is convenient for them to adhere to them. To say that it is for the convenience of the House to tackle a Bill of such complexity and considerable importance—a Bill which was received by most of us only this morning—in a debate beginning quite late this very afternoon, is a misstatement.

It is not for the convenience of the House, nor, I say with respect, is it good for the reputation of the House. We are supposed to be a revising Chamber. Many noble Lords (if not I) have given great attention to this Bill and taken a great deal of trouble over it. Now to proceed as is suggested—namely; straightaway, with the Bill straight back from another place and with no opportunity whatever for reasonable consideration of the amendments and of whether we should accept them—is undoubtedly harmful to the position of the House as a revising Chamber. Like my noble friend, I immensely regret that the Government have taken that line.

§ Lord Tordoff

My Lords, perhaps I may speak from these Benches, as part of the usual channels. I do not believe that anybody within the usual channels would dissent from many of the comments that have been made. It is very unfortunate that the House is faced with such a situation at this stage of the year. It is not new. It tends to happen every year because that is the way in which foolishly we do our business.

We are very much at the behest of the Government's programme. We could seek to disrupt it. We could seek to continue the Session into August. But, on the whole, the usual channels try within reasonable limits to facilitate progress of business within your Lordships' House. The difficulty is that we are in the last week of the Session with a still quite heavy programme. The noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, suggested that certain matters might be moved from Wednesday to Friday. That would cause considerable difficulties to the people who seek to do what they have to do on Wednesday and who have equal rights in those matters to noble Lords concerned with this Bill.