HC Deb 21 May 1935 vol 302 cc1039-41

The following Amendment stood upon the Order Paper:

In page 168, line 26, at the end, to insert: Provided that no Order in Council under this Section shall transfer the civil station of Bangalore from British India."—[Mr. A. Somerville.]

8.2p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER

I have had some doubt in my mind as to whether the Amendment in the name of the hon. Member for Windsor (Mr. A. Somerville) is out side the scope of the Bill or not. If the Secretary of State tells me that it is outside the scope of the Bill, I will not call it; otherwise, I will.

Sir S. HOARE

May I point out to you that Bangalore is State territory? It is part of the territory of the State of Mysore. It is not a part of British India at all. I would submit to you that any question of dealing with the transfer of State territory, territory which is not territory of British India at all, which is outside the purview of this House, must surely be out of order in a Bill of this kind.

Mr. SPEAKER

The Amendment says: Provided that no Order in Council under this section shall transfer the civil station of Bangalore from British India.? If Bangalore is not in British India it cannot be transferred from British India. In that case, I am certain that the Amendment would be outside the scope of the Bill.

Sir S. HOARE

It can only be transferred by treaty between the Crown and the State of Mysore. It cannot be transferred by any Act of this Parliament.

8.4 p.m.

Mr. ANNESLEY SOMERVILLE

In the year of rendition an agreement was made that until the military station was removed from there that territory would remain in British India. I understand that it is still in British India.

Sir S. HOARE

No, it is not.

Mr. A. SOMERVILLE

I wish to move with the object of affording an opportunity for the Secretary of State to acquaint the House as to the exact position of the British Bangalore question. It is of the greatest moment to the people of Bangalore, the great majority of whom are opposed to the transfer.

Sir S. HOARE

That has nothing to do with this Bill.

8.5 p.m.

Mr. SPEAKER

I can only repeat that if Bangalore is not included in British India. It cannot be transferred from British India. That is quite clear. The Secretary of State assures me that Bangalore is not included in British India.

Duchess of ATHOLL

This question of the secession of Bangalore has repeatedly been the subject of questions in this House. It has never been argued that the House has not the right to ask such questions.

Mr. SPEAKER

I quite agree that it has been the subject of many questions, but that does not make it in order on this Bill.

8.6 p.m.

Mr. A. SOMERVILLE

I understand that it was a question of whether it comes under paramountcy or not. I thought that that was a matter in dispute, that it has not been decided that this was a question of paramountcy. I therefore thought that it would be in order to move the Amendment.

Sir R. CRADDOCK

No doubt Bangalore might or might not be, if the whole story were gone into, technically British India, or it might or might not be found to belong to the State of Mysore. But the point is that the British Minister is in exactly the same position as regards Bihar, and Bihar we have freely discussed; in fact, the Bill has several Clauses dealing with Bihar. The two cases are, I submit, parallel.

Mr. SPEAKER

That does not put this particular Amendment in order. If Bangalore is not in British India, I cannot call the Amendment.