§ 3. Mr. Harry GreenwayTo ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on compensation payments made to women dismissed from the armed forces on the grounds of pregnancy.
§ The Minister of State for the Armed Forces (Mr. Nicholas Soames)The Ministry of Defence has now dealt with about two thirds of the claims for pregnancy dismissal. Following successful appeals by my Department in July, most awards by industrial tribunals have since been at a more reasonable level. The overall average payment is currently about £10,000.
§ Mr. GreenwayI thank my hon. Friend for that reply. How many women are involved? How much compensation is expected to be paid? What about those service women who have not had babies, for their own or other reasons? How does all this contribute to the defence of the realm and where will it all end?
§ Mr. SoamesI do not think it would be proper for me to speculate about where it is all likely to end. My hon. Friend raises an important point. Clearly, the judgment that led to the claims was very disturbing for us. Some 4,500 people have claimed and 3,127 of those claims have been settled—more than two thirds. The average payment has been about £10,000. So far, my Department has paid out £32 million. The outcome is likely to be less than £50 million. This has come at a bad time for the defence budget. We have done everything possible to keep the payments at a reasonable level in the interests not only of the defence budget but of the taxpayer.
§ Mr. MartlewSurely the Minister must accept that the reality is that, for more than a decade, the Ministry of Defence pursued an unfair and illegal policy of discriminating against pregnant service women. The result of such a sexist policy is that the United Kingdom taxpayer will have to pick up a bill of £50 million for the incompetence of the Conservative Government.
§ Mr. SoamesThat is pretty rich coming from a party that never complained about it. As the hon. Gentleman would know, had he bothered to do the work, anyone who was discharged on pregnancy between 1978 and 1988, before the services introduced maternity leave, can make a claim under a court judgment in 1991. Clearly, the Government did not know that the policy of discharging service women on pregnancy was unlawful; nor did anyone else—otherwise, the lawyers for the pregnancy claimants would have brought the claims at another time. No such claim was pursued until the end of the 1980s. It is a regrettable episode and a waste of an amount of money that we could well do without spending.
§ Dame Elaine Kellett-BowmanDoes my hon. Friend accept that it is absurd for the hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew) to describe the outrageous claims as unfair? The women knew when they signed up precisely what the terms were. They signed to that effect. May I congratulate the Ministry on appealing and having some of the more ludicrous payments reduced? They are still too much, but the situation is better than it was.
§ Mr. SoamesI am grateful to my hon. Friend for bringing some sanity to the matter. My hon. Friend is right; in July, the appeal tribunal agreed that some awards were manifestly grossly excessive and issued fresh 454 guidance. That has proved helpful and has reduced the level of awards and settlements from about £25,000 to £10,000. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her support. She brings some clarity to this otherwise absurd issue.