HC Deb 10 July 1990 vol 176 cc164-6
7. Mr. Pike

To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has any plans to increase the number of pre-school education places.

Mrs. Rumbold

Total local authority expenditure on education, as allowed for in the most recent grant settlement, will permit continued increases in the numbers and proportion of under-fives in school. However, it is for authorities themselves to determine the scale of their provision in that discretionary area.

Mr. Pike

Does the Minister accept that that answer is absolute nonsense? Does she recognise that the financial controls that will result from poll tax capping and from further poll tax restrictions next year on local authorities, such as Lancashire, will mean a further reduction in the provision of education services for the under-fives? Does she agree that this country has an appalling record in the provision of services for the under-fives? Does she accept that the best 22 providers of those services are at present Labour authorities?

Mrs. Rumbold

No, I cannot accept any of those propositions. There has been a 25 per cent. increase in provision for the under-fives since 1980. Like many previous Administrations, this Administration has sensibly targeted resources towards the cities where there is a greater requirement for the provision of nursery education.

Mr. Rathbone

Does my hon. Friend accept, as many of her hon. Friends accept, and as the Prime Minister accepted when she was Secretary of State for Education and Science, that the single most potent contribution that the Government could make to raise the standards of education throughout an educational lifetime, and to maintain the standards of the family, would be to make greater provision of nursery education? During the present review, will my hon. Friend bear that in mind and plan accordingly for the future?

Mrs. Rumbold

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. I know of his great interest in this subject and read his recent paper on nursery provision for the under-fives with great interest. He will be glad to know that this country has a good record in providing pre-school education, not simply by nursery education, but through the voluntary sector, with the provision of pre-school playgroups. I shall certainly bear in mind my hon. Friend's views on the value of pre-school education, and those of my other hon. Friends.

Mr. Matthew Taylor

Given the impact of pre-school education on the future education of the individual child—of which we are all aware—is not it time for the Minister to reconsider the discretion of local authorities and to make pre-school education part of the basic provision, for all parents and children who desire that opportunity?

Mrs. Rumbold

At present we have the earliest starting age for full-time education of any of our European colleagues, other than the Netherlands. All our children start compulsory education at five. At present we do not see any reason for reducing the starting age for compulsory education to below five.

Mr. Holt

In seeking additional resources for pre-school provision, will my hon. Friend ask the Government to reconsider the school-leaving age with a view to bringing it far more into line with Europe, to enable us to be more flexible; to improve training throughout our country and to bring us into line with Europe on that issue also; to reduce the incidence of crime and truancy among youngsters and to give us a greater impetus after 1992?

Mrs. Rumbold

I share my hon. Friend's interest and concern about the school-leaving age and about the importance of encouraging young people to stay on in sensible training and education—I believe that that is what my hon. Friend wants—because that will lead us to a more disciplined and better trained society in the future. As I said, I believe that it is important that children should have pre-school education, but of a nature and type that accords with their parents' wishes.

Ms. Armstrong

If the Government are concerned to offer choice to parents, why have not they fulfilled their commitment to enable every parent to have the opportunity to choose nursery education if they so wish? If, as we have read, the Minister's committee on education for the under-fives is to recommend a major expansion of nursery education, will she today guarantee that the Government will fund such an expansion?

Mrs. Rumbold

The hon. Lady must give up her obsession with wanting every parent to have to send every child into some kind of nursery education within the state system. We have always believed in the principle of choice for parents, and it is that choice which we have supported. About 86 per cent. of our three and four-year-olds are currently in some form of pre-school education of the parents' choice. As for funding, the hon. Lady should know that we are at present looking at my right hon. Friend's announcement of last week that there is to be an education support grant of £2.5 million. That will go towards the improvement of planning pre-school education, and of caring by nursery nurses and by others involved in nursery education.