HC Deb 10 March 1969 vol 779 cc950-3
8. Mr. Edward M. Taylor

asked the Minister of Transport what steps he is taking to implement the recommendations contained in the Annual Report of the Central Transport Consultative Committee for Great Britain; and if he will make a statement.

16. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has considered the Report of the Central Transport Users Consultative Committee about the persistent unpunctuality of trains operated by British Railways; and what action he proposes to take.

52. Mr. Bessell

asked the Minister of Transport what steps he proposes to take arising from the report of the Central Transport Consultative Committee of deterioration in punctuality in passenger train arrivals and its report that in the year 1968 approximately 40 per cent. of trains failed to arrive at stations at the scheduled time; and if he will make a statement.

69. Mr. Speed

asked the Minister of Transport what recommendations he has received from the Central Transport Consultative Committee regarding amenities and facilities at New Street Station, Birmingham; and when he proposes to take a decision on these recommendations.

Mr. Marsh

The Central Transport Consultative Committee has recorded its views on a number of items, such as punctuality of passenger trains, information for passengers and railway timetables, which the Railways Board is now responsible for considering as matters of management. There are two outstanding items for which I have a direct responsibility. One concerns the recommendations about facilities at Birmingham New Street Station. I have decided to give no directions to the board about these. As the reasons for my decision are rather lengthy, I will, with permission, circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The other is the authorisation of capital expenditure to improve Southern Region train services. Considerable investment is now taking place in the region, and the only proposal in respect of passengers now before me is the balance, costing some £10 million, to replace old rolling stock. I hope to give a decision on this shortly.

Mr. Edward M. Taylor

Is not the investment record of the Government in the railways deplorable bearing in mind that investment this year will be only £85 million compared with £120 million in 1965? On the question of punctuality, should not the Minister explain why elimination of steam trains and modernisation have not produced an improvement? Is not public sympathy in British Railways over this matter becoming exhausted? What steps will the right hon. Gentleman take to improve the situation?

Mr. Marsh

Opposition Members should make up their minds. It ill becomes them to complain that the level of public expenditure is not sufficiently high. A great deal of work in terms of modernisation has gone on, and on some lines this is very difficult. It is a question not merely of spending money but of the sheer shape of the system but improvements are being made.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Referring to Question No. 16, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that what the public wants with its very expensive railway system is punctuality and reliability? In view of the fact that the Minister's Committee has itself reported that this is not only bad but is deteriorating, what is he to do about it?

Mr. Marsh

I do not accept that nothing is being done about it. It is a very difficult problem, particularly in the Southern Region commuter services, as hon. Members opposite discovered when they were in office.

Mr. Speed

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that if the C.T.C.C. Report is to mean anything some action should be taken on it? Could not the individual regions have a punctuality yardstick which the public could see and so that they would know how the regions kept to it?

Mr. Marsh

We cannot produce yardsticks on punctuality. A great deal of work is done on this problem but it is very difficult, particularly in the commuter services, which involve channelling large numbers of people on a system which was never designed to take that number. This is a very big subject.

Mr. Bessell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the travelling public are becoming increasingly disillusioned by the failure of trains to arrive on time and by the general standards of train services—particularly, for example, the heating of carriages and many other services which should be improved?

Mr. Marsh

I do not accept that. If one travels on British Railways trains and on trains overseas one finds that the modern British Railways stock and modern services are as good as anything anywhere else.

Mr. Manuel

Will my right hon. Friend advise the Opposition that in many areas in Britain train services have improved and heating has also improved and, because of the more modern stock being brought into operation, complaints are fewer? Will he also inform the House with reference to punctuality that many things can happen which only working railwaymen understand, such as speed restrictions being put on because of underground workings by which lines suddenly become unsafe and are likely to subside? Speed restrictions are put on in such a situation. Before hon. Members opposite talk about punctuality they should ask railwaymen about it and get to understand the problem.

Mr. Speaker

Long questions mean fewer questions and answers.

Following is the information: Recommendation 1 (The provision of two toilets with washing facilities on the main concourse.) Excellent toilet facilities are available for passengers immediately beyond the ticket barrier, and these could also be used by persons not holding train tickets on purchase of a platform ticket. There are public lavatories adjacent to the station, one near the vehicular access to the Bull Ring and another underneath the ramp which leads out to New Street. The general layout of the concourse area is such that it cannot be adapted to provide space for additional lavatories where these could be supervised easily and effectively by the Railways Board's staff, and strict supervision is necessary over lavatories easily accessible to the general public at main line stations. The Board have provided adequate toilet facilities for the travelling public, and should not be required to provide additional facilities in the main concourse which would be required, if at all, by persons other than travellers for whom nearby public lavatories are already available. Recommendation 2 (The provision of additional public telephones on the dispersal bridge.) Following the Recommendation, two additional telephones have been provided. Recommendation 3 (The re-siting of the train arrival indicator board or the provision of suitably placed notices indicating its location.) It is not possible to re-site the indicator board, but an illuminated sign indicating more clearly its position is now being erected. This solution to the problem should be effective. Recommendation 4 (The replacement by escalators of the fixed stairways adjacent to escalators between platform level and dispersal bridge.) Representatives of the Central and West Midland Area Committees who studied the amenities at the station thought there was a danger of an accident arising from the narrowness of the staircases adjacent to the escalators and the difficulty of two-way traffic on the staircases, but such fears are unfounded as present arrangements appear adequate and safe. There are other staircases which can be used by those wishing to descend at the same time as many passengers are coming up; and in the morning rush hour, those wishing to ascend but unwilling to use a staircase would not have to wait more than a minute or two before using an escalator. Additional escalators running down might at times themselves cause dangers, in that persons using them might be forced on to crowded platforms. Moreover, the cost of installing additional escalators to the five island platforms would be in the region of £85,000 and the Railways Board would not be justified in incurring expenditure of this order on an amenity of only marginal benefit to passengers using the station. Recommendation 5 (The installation of closed circuit television in the waiting room to be provided on the dispersal bridge to supplement the public address system.) This is not practicable. The cost would be high, the installation might be subject to wanton damage, and the public address system which already operates throughout the station, including the waiting room, is very effective. Recommendation 6 (The immediate improvement of ventilation at platform levels.) Steps have been taken to ensure no recurrence of the irregular practices which caused unsatisfactory ventilation. Recommendation 7 (The provision of protective screens around platform seats located near vending machines.) The Railways Board are developing a new scheme for the provision of waiting shelters in the platform areas and will consult the Area Committee about their plans.