Town and Country Planning Bill

HC Deb 11 November 1958 vol 595 cc175-7

21. Mr. Hannan

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what protests he has received from the legal profession in Scotland in respect of the Town and Country Planning Bill now before the House of Commons.

Mr. Maclay

None, Sir. I have, however, noted various criticisms in the Press, while my right hon. and learned Friend, the Lord Advocate, tells me that he has received letters from the hon. and learned Member for Paisley (Mr. D. Johnston) and from another member of the legal profession.

Mr. Hannan

Surely the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the protest of the legal profession—and of newspaper leaders in Scotland—who are unanimous in expressing great regret, and worse, at the betrayal of this great principle in Scottish legislation. Can the Secretary of State explain why a Scottish Bill for town and country planning is brought in, along with an English Bill, by the back door?

Mr. Maclay

There are a great many things to be considered in deciding the best form for legislation in cases where a principle is common to Great Britain, but where references to Scottish as well as English Acts are required. Although references are needed in this case to earlier Scottish and English Acts, the principle is common to both countries and there are, as the hon. Member knows, very obvious difficulties in completely separate discussions going on about a common principle.

Mr. Woodburn

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a suspicion that there is a growing tendency to scramble the eggs between Scotland and England in regard to this type of legislation, and that the legal people find themselves in great difficulty in trying to ascertain exactly what alteration is being made to Scottish law? This scissors and paste legislation is extremely expensive and extremely difficult. Further, shall we have existing Scottish legislation mixed up with English legislation? Is not it the case that if the Bill is taken upstairs the great bulk of the Scottish Members will be excluded from any consideration of it?

Mr. Maclay

Each case must be considered on its merits. The most careful consideration was given to this Bill by my colleagues and me, and we feel that it was the best way of proceeding in the interests of wise discussion of an important principle which must, of its nature, apply upon a Great Britain basis. The decision in this case cannot prejudge future Bills. I do not accept that this method precludes the proper Scottish consideration of issues. There will be Scottish Members on the Committee, and other Scottish Members will be in the same position as a great many English and Welsh Members who cannot serve on the Committee either.

Mr. Woodburn

This is a Scottish Measure that is being altered. Is not it the case that when the Committee is set up Scottish Members will be regarded as intruders and will not be able to take a full part in the proceedings?

Mr. Maclay

Absolutely not. The right hon. Gentleman does a grave injustice to the quality and standard of the Scottish Members who take part in these discussions, whose wisdom is more than welcomed by our English and Welsh colleagues when they sit in the same Committee.

22. Mr. Hannan

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he had with the local authorities about the Town and Country Planning Bill now before the House of Commons.

Mr. Maclay

The three main associations of local authorities were told in early July that the Government were re-examining the policy relating to compensation for compulsory acquisition of land, and were invited to submit any comments or suggestions on the general problem. In addition, their views were specifically sought on the ancillary and other matters covered by the Bill.

Mr. Hannan

Were the local authorities informed of the fact that the Bill would be introduced in the form in which it has been introduced? Is this method of introducing a Bill an acknowledgment by the Government that they have no confidence in the ability of Scottish Ministers to put the Bill through? Will he confirm or deny that the reason for Lord Strathclyde's recent resignation was the manner in which the Bill has been introduced?

Mr. Maclay

The hon. Member has put a number of supplementary questions, some of which might arise out of the Question and some of which certainly do not. Answering the Question and the main supplementary question, what was put to the associations was not a set of proposals but papers canvassing the desirability, in the event of legislation becoming possible on the main question, of including provisions on certain matters. That is normal procedure in matters of this kind.