HC Deb 10 May 1950 vol 475 cc356-9
17. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

asked the Postmaster-General when he complied with the request of the Engineering Officers (Telecommunications) Association to check their membership figures

Mr. Ness Edwards

I will with permission, answer this Question and Ouestions Nos. 18 and 22 together.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

On a point of Order. Mr. Speaker I understand that your recent Ruling was that the consent of the hon. Member is required for this procedure to be followed. You will note that Question No. 17 refers simply to one date. So far as it is up to me, that permission is not given.

Mr. Ness Edwards

I understand that it is the Minister's right to determine which Questions he proposes to answer together.

Mr. Speaker

The Minister is entitled to answer Questions in any way he likes, but the hon. Member asking the Question is also entitled to refuse his permission, and he can ask for the same answer to be given twice if necessary

Mr. Ness Edwards

With regard to Question No. 17, I have not checked the membership figures of the Engineering Officers (Telecommunications) Association.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on 14th December his hon. Friend the Assistant-Postmaster General gave an undertaking to this House that these figures would be checked on 31st December last? Can the right hon. Gentleman say why that undertaking has not been carried out?

Mr. Ness Edwards

In this matter I can only accept responsibility for my own actions; I answered the hon. Gentleman truthfully.

Mr. Donner

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is underlying the withholding of this information?

Mr. Ness Edwards

If the hon. Gentleman will wait until I answer the further Questions he will get an answer.

Captain Crookshank

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman what he meant by saying that he could not accept responsibility for answers given by the Assistant Postmaster-General in this House?

Mr. Ness Edwards

I should have thought that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman, who has had a great deal of experience of this side of the House, would have appreciated that any Minister would be caught on the wrong foot if permission was refused him to give answers to a certain number of Questions in one form. I do not lay down as a doctrine that a successor has no responsibility for what has taken place in preceding Sessions. All I can say is that the hon. Gentleman has caught me at a great disadvantage in trying to raise a point which I thought was covered in a much more general answer.

Captain Crookshank

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I was not asking a question about his reply or about its content, but for an assurance that he is not accepting a new theory that he is not responsible for what the Assistant Postmaster-General has said in the House on behalf of the Government?

Mr. Ness Edwards

This is something that took place before I became Postmaster-General, I have no assurance at all that the statement alleged to have been made by my hon. Friend was made in the House. I took the precaution of asking him before I rose, and he has no recollection of making the statement.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Will the right hon. Gentleman consult the OFFICIAL REPORT, 14th December, column 266 of Written Answers, where he will see the perfectly explicit undertaking I have quoted? In view of the fact that he appears to be unaware of that undertaking having been given, will he now give an undertaking to carry it out?

Mr. Ness Edwards

I am sure that the hon. Member would not wish to put me in an unfair position. I will examine the undertaking that has been given. If the undertaking has been given, it will be my duty to carry it out or give an explanation to the House for not doing so.

18. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the fact that the Engineering Officers (Telecommunications) Association has now for at least seven months had a membership sufficient to entitle it to recognition by him under the existing rules governing recognition, he will now grant such recognition.

Mr. Ness Edwards

I am wondering if I can have the permission of the hon. Member to answer this Question with Question No. 22.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Ness Edwards

My examination of this problem is now reaching an end, and I hope soon to be able to give an answer.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

With particular reference to Question No. 18, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, according to the still existing rules, this Association has been entitled to recognition for not less than eight months? Whatever the results of the right hon. Gentleman's consideration of the general problem, can he explain why that recognition has been withheld for that prolonged period?

Mr. Ness Edwards

The hon. Member is quite wrong in his suggestion. That has never been the rule.

Mr. Awbery

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that this is not a break-away union, and will he explain why the Opposition is so interested in these breakaway unions?

Mr. Henry Strauss

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that my hon. Friend was quite correct, according to this book published by His Majesty's Treasury last year, "Staff Relations in the Civil Service"? Will he make quite certain that when he comes to his decision he follows the principles the Treasury have there laid lown?

Mr. Ness Edwards

I am taking into consideration all the factors in this matter. I am sure that there will be some discussion about this later, but I would inform Members that there are 37 unions in this very narrow service, and that it is like moving through a jungle

Mr. R. V. Grimston

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he will be able to make his statement?

Mr. Ness Edwards

I gave rather a precise date earlier, and I am afraid I rather disappointed the House, but I hope to make it next Wednesday.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I beg to give notice that in view of the completely unsatisfactory reply I shall seek without delay to raise this matter on an appropriate occasion.

22. Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

asked the Postmaster-General whether he can now make his promised statement as to the result of his consideration of the question of recognition of staff associations in the Post Office.

Mr. Ness Edwards

I understand that this Question was answered with Question No. 18.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

Yes, Sir.