HC Deb 10 February 1948 vol 447 cc184-7
2. Mr. Willis

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received concerning the Taylor Committee's Report on Shop Tenure in Scotland; and whether he will introduce legislation to give effect to the temporary proposals recommended therein.

Mr. Carmichael

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has considered the Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Tenure of Shop Premises in Scotland; is he aware that many shopkeepers are again being threatened with eviction at the May term because of property being sold; and has he considered the introduction of legislation to protect the small shopkeeper against unreasonable action.

Mr. J. L. Williams

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has considered the letter recently forwarded him by the Glasgow and District Branch of the National Federation of Retail Newsagents, Booksellers and Stationers with regard to the Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Tenure of Shop Premises in Scotland; and whether he will take steps to protect shop tenants along the lines suggested by this organisation.

Mr. Woodburn

Since the Report of the Committee was presented, I have received representations from two trade organisations, both of whom had submitted evidence to the Committee, and from six individuals. As hon. Members are aware, the Committee did not recommend immediate action but that the position should be kept under review. This is being done, but the information available does not show that any change of circumstances, which would justify legislation, has occurred since the Committee reported.

Mr. Willis

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that according to the representations made it appears that there will be a repetition this May of what happened last May, and will not he accept the interim recommendations of the Committee?

Mr. Woodburn

As I have previously said, this Committee heard evidence, mainly from the people who purported to be the victims. They did not even hear evidence from the landlords, who were presumed to be the victimisers. Even with that limited evidence from the one side only the Committee reported that they had not sufficient justification to recommend legislation, and while I recognise that here and there there may be cases of hardship there has not, in the opinion of the Committee, been hardship to such an extent as to justify legislation.

Mr. Carmichael

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the fact that the most prominent authority for property owners in Scotland was a member of the Committee? In view of the fact that this matter always arises during the May term, is he aware that if he fails to introduce some form of legislation he gives a blank cheque to the property owners to go on and do their very worst in the ensuing 12 months, and that anything that happens between the May terms is of no avail to the people in those properties?

Mr. Woodburn

To my knowledge these cases have arisen for the last 50 years. This is not a new phenomenon but the question is whether it exists in sufficient numbers, whether there is sufficient injustice, to justify Parliament passing general legislation. The Committee, which was not biased in the direction which my hon. Friend suggested—it was evenly counter-balanced in the other direction—came to the conclusion that there was no such justification.

Mr. J. L. Williams

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that for some shopkeepers this problem is now getting worse inasmuch as they are being pressed to buy not only their shops, but large blocks of property attached to the shops?

Mr. Hector Hughes

Will my right hon. Friend at least consider adopting the suggestion in Paragraph 27 of the Report that the sheriff be given power to grant an interim order authorising a tenant to continue in possession of his premises for such time and on such terms as the sheriff might allow? Might that not be a way to meet the temporary difficulties which have arisen?

Mr. Woodburn

I have considered that. What is important is not simply a question of power. The matter is not so simple as it appears on the surface. It is not easy to find a simple solution for a very complex problem about changing the ownership of property between one person and another.

Lieut.-Colonel Sir Thomas Moore

Could not some interim restriction be imposed on the sale over their heads of shopkeepers' shops and property? As the right hon. Gentleman knows, many letters have been received by all of us showing the great hardship involved at the May term. Will he consider some interim restriction?

Mr. Woodburn

I have already intimated that I am prepared to receive any evidence that this is a widespread complaint. Even though I said that some time ago I have only had six items sent to me. They are all ex parte statements. The Committee only heard ex parte statements. They were bound to regard them as secret, and could not check them up with the people against whom the allegations were made. Even on the evidence submitted there is no information whatever justifying me in providing legislation.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

Is not the Minister aware that when the hon. and gallant Member for the Ayr Burghs (Sir T. Moore) puts the case of a grievance of the small man there must be something in it? Although it has been going on for 50 years, we put the right hon. Gentleman in office to help to remedy the grounds of the complaint.

Mr. Woodburn

One does not take a steam hammer to crush a peanut. We have to be satisfied that there is sufficient justification for general legislation to cover this complaint. I have made an offer to the House that I am willing to receive evidence, and as soon as evidence accumulates which would justify legislation it will be considered. I cannot come to the House or the Government and propose legislation unless there is evidence that some legislation would be justified.

Mr. Henderson Stewart

In considering this matter will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that some hon. Members are also receiving letters from quite humble people who happen to own property and who are put under great disability at the present time, so that their case can be considered in fairness with the other side of the case?

Mr. Rankin

Is my right hon. Friend aware that since the Committee reported the National Federation of Retail Newsagents, Booksellers and Stationers report many new cases, and have these been drawn to his notice? Also, is he aware that they firmly believe that the situation will, now deteriorate very rapidly indeed unless action is taken?

Mr. Woodburn

This House cannot provide legislation on the grounds of beliefs. We must have some evidence of facts. These organisations gave evidence before the Committee. The Committee was not able to verify that evidence because they were bound to secrecy, but even with the evidence before them it did not provide justification for legislation. I have asked hon. Members of the House and others with information available to produce it. I cannot be aware of cases until they are produced to me.