HC Deb 23 July 1947 vol 440 cc1233-552

Order read for consideration of Lords Amendments.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Lords Amendments be now considered."—[Mr. Barnes.]

3.55 P.m.

Lieut.-Colonel Dower (Penrith and Cockermouth)

On a point of Order. Could you inform me, Mr. Speaker, whether it is usual for the Amendments which are passed by another place, and which the Government do not intend to accept, not to be printed on the Order Paper?

Mr. Speaker

I did not quite catch what the hon. and gallant Member wanted. I am bound to put all the Amendments to the House. I cannot avoid that. I can put together those which are agreed, and that I hope to do.

Mr. Keenan (Liverpool, Kirkdale)

Is it not a fact, Sir, that a list of the Lords Amendments has been issued. I suggest that the hon. and gallant Member for Penrith and Cockermouth (Lieut.-Colonel Dower) should get a copy, so that he will know what the Lords have agreed to.

Question put, and agreed to.

Lords Amendments considered accordingly.

The Minister of Transport (Mr. Barnes)

May I, at this stage, ask your guidance, Mr. Speaker, as to the procedure which we might follow for the general convenience of the House? In referring to three documents, those which set out the Lords Amendments, the Motions on the Order Paper in my name, and the Bill as it left this House—and which has been considerably altered by the Lords Amendments—we may find ourselves in a difficulty in following various related matters There are 10 major issues on which the Government will ask the House to disagree with the Lords, and there are 42 Amendments which are connected with these major issues. There are some 240 Amendments which have been made in another place, some 200 of which are either mainly drafting, or result from agreement which took place during the discussions, or which give effect to pledges and undertakings which I gave on the Report stage. If it meets with the general convenience of the House I would like, on behalf of the Government, to advise acceptance of those Amendments, limiting, in the main, our discussion to the major Amendments on which there is disagreement. If it meets with your approval, Sir, and the general convenience of the House, would it be desirable to consider each related group of Amendments, and take the discussion on each of them on the main Amendment?

I would like to run over, briefly, the issues on which there is major disagreement between this House and another place. They are the limitation of the powers of direction; the appointments to the Executive; the Scottish Executive; the doubling of the mileage limit for road haulage; the exclusion of "A" contracts; the exclusion of milk; the onus of proof; the subordination to the licensing authority; the decision of the referees on staff compensation, and the procedure on inquiries. I would be glad, Sir, if you could give me your guidance on the submission I have made.

Mr. Assheton (City of London)

I agree that the position is a little complicated, but, speaking for myself and my hon. and right hon. Friends on this side, the procedure which the Minister has outlined seems to be convenient to the House, and if it meets with your approval, Mr. Speaker, I shall be very glad to support it.

4.0 p.m.

Mr. Oliver Poole (Oswestry)

If we are to take these Amendments in group, may we discuss each set of the group as may be necessary from time to time? There will be difficulty in deciding which Amendments fall in each group, and as each Amendment is moved could we be told what group goes with it?

Mr. Barnes

At the time, yes.

Mr. Charles Williams (Torquay)

I have no particular wish to fall out with any understanding that may have been arrived at. If we are going to discuss the Amendments in groups, that is one thing; but there are a vast number of other Amendments Which, it would seem to me, we should have a chance of discussing separately when coming to the group of vetos. I think that we should be careful not to rule out those that are not exactly dealing with the same point. I am not quite clear whether the Amendments are printed correctly. May I draw your attention, Mr. Speaker, to page 22 of the Lords Amendments. Near the bottom of the page will be seen "page 101," and then comes "page 108," after that "page 105." In going through the Amendments, I found very great difficulty, and I could not follow what happens after the first one in fitting in the Amendments on pages 28 and 29. It seems that there must be a misprint and I am not sure that this is the only one. I should like to know when we come to these, if we may have the position made clear.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Gentleman is perfectly correct. There are some misprints. I have a list of them. I do not think that they are our fault; I believe that the fault arises in another place. I would propose as we come to each misprint—I do not think that they are serious—to read it out, and to make it perfectly plain to the House how it should read. As regards the other point, I thought that this arrangement might be generally for the convenience of the House, but I cannot, of course, very well put the Amendments en bloc to disagree with another place, in case there is a desire to discuss any particular point. I think that it would be better to put them separately, unless they are purely drafting or consequential Amendments. With regard to points generally agreed, I suggest that I put these page by page, and if any hon. Member wishes to raise a point he should stop me when I read out the Amendment.

  1. CLAUSE 1.—(The Commission.) 149 words
  2. c1236
  3. CLAUSE 2.—(Powers of Commission.) 86 words
  4. cc1236-53
  5. CLAUSE 4.—(Powers of the Minister in relation to the Commission.) 8,034 words, 2 divisions
  6. cc1253-346
  7. CLAUSE 5.—(The Executives.) 35,606 words, 6 divisions
  8. c1347
  9. CLAUSE 17.—(Valuation of securities for compensation purposes.) 194 words
  10. cc1347-50
  11. CLAUSE 20.—(Payments by Commission in respect of profits for period preceding date of transfer.) 960 words
  12. c1350
  13. CLAUSE 25.—(Application of preceding provisions to local authorities.) 238 words
  14. cc1350-421
  15. CLAUSE 39.—(Certain road transport undertakings to be acquired by Commission.) 29,575 words, 8 divisions
  16. cc1421-39
  17. CLAUSE 40.—(Notices of acquisition.) 7,638 words, 2 divisions
  18. cc1439-72
  19. CLAUSE 52.—(Additional restrictions on carriage of goods for hire and reward.) 13,594 words, 4 divisions
  20. cc1473-97
  21. CLAUSE 52.—(Additional restrictions on the carriage of goods for hire or reward.) 9,916 words, 4 divisions
  22. cc1497-509
  23. CLAUSE 58.—(Application of Road and Rail Traffic Act, 1933, to Commission.) 5,002 words, 2 divisions
  24. cc1509-14
  25. CLAUE 64.—(Passenger road transport services of the Commission.) 2,363 words, 4 divisions
  26. cc1515-9
  27. CLAUSE 78.—(Alteration of charges scheme.) 2,043 words, 2 divisions
  28. c1519
  29. CLAUSE 83.—(Transitional provisions as to exceptional rales and fares of the Commission.) 166 words
  30. cc1520-4
  31. CLAUSE 93.—(Sums which are to be chargeable to revenue.) 1,421 words
  32. cc1524-33
  33. CLAUSE 98.—(Provisions as to pension rights.) 4,056 words, 2 divisions
  34. cc1533-4
  35. CLAUSE 99.—(Special provisions as to railway and canal pension funds, etc.) 126 words
  36. cc1534-5
  37. CLAUSE 101.—(Compensation to officers and servants in connection with transfers.) 155 words
  38. c1535
  39. SECOND SCHEDULE.—(Provisions as to Executives.) 77 words
  40. cc1535-52
  41. EIGHTH SCHEDULE.—(Orders giving effect to schemes.) 7,041 words, 2 divisions