§ 4. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government have proposed to the Italian Government that they should co-operate with His Majesty's Government in making joint representations to General Franco to induce him to accept the plan prepared by the Non-Intervention Committee for the evacuation of foreign troops from Spain; and what reply was received?
§ Mr. ButlerThe Non-Intervention Committee's plan has naturally been a subject for frequent exchanges of views with the Italian Government, but I am not prepared to disclose the details of diplomatic interchanges which have taken place on the subject.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIn view of the fact that we have made representations to General Franco on this matter, and pressed them very strongly, and in view of the fact that we are reassured that it is not the fault of the Italian Government that the Non-Intervention Plan has not been carried out, is it not possible for us to invite Signor Mussolini to make joint representations with us to General Franco at an early date?
§ Mr. ButlerI can add nothing to the statement I have made.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerDo the Italian Government refuse to make joint representations?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir. The hon. Member must adhere to the answer I have given, and not make any assumptions.
§ Colonel WedgwoodWhen are we likely to get from the Government a true account of these negotiations with Italy on this subject?
§ Mr. ButlerI have said I cannot make diplomatic exchanges public.
§ Colonel WedgwoodHow long will it be before we can get this information?
§ 11. Mr. Benjamin Smithasked the Prime Minister what effective steps are being taken by His Majesty's Government to secure the payment of compensation by the Burgos authorities for damage done to British ships; and whether any protest has been lodged concerning the non-payment of full compensation for loss of life and injuries resulting from deliberate aerial attack?
§ 25. Mr. W. Robertsasked the Prime Minister whether the Insurgent authorities have now agreed to an inquiry into the bombing of British ships on the conditions set out by the Prime Minister in his speech to the House of Commons on 26th July?
§ Mr. ButlerAs I informed the House on 1st November, discussions regarding the proposed Commission of Investigation into the bombing of British ships have been proceeding with the interests concerned, and the Government hope in the near future to be able to approach General Franco's Administration with detailed proposals on the subject.
§ Mr. SmithWill the hon. Gentleman answer the question as to whether any effort is being made with the Burgos authorities to obtain compensation, either for ships lost or damaged, or for loss of life or injury?
§ Mr. ButlerYes, Sir. That has been the subject of these negotiations. The question of compensation for loss of life or injury is one of the matters that will, we hope, in the very near future be referred to General Franco's Administration.
§ Mr. SmithIn the interim, has any payment been made to the families of people who have been injured or have lost their lives in these raids?
§ Mr. ButlerYes, Sir. As I have stated, that is a matter for the National Maritime Board.
§ Mr. RobertsIn view of the fact that our representative returned to Spain, as long ago as July, on the understanding, expressly given by the Prime Minister in this House, that the terms of this inquiry had been agreed to, are we to understand, four months later, that the terms have not been agreed to by the Burgos authorities?
§ Mr. ButlerAs the hon. Member knows, there have been discussions proceeding with the shipowners about the provision of a complete plan for us to put before the Burgos authorities. There have been misunderstandings on the nature of this plan, and that is why there have been negotiations.
§ Mr. RobertsIt is not the shipowners, but General Franco who has gone back on his undertakings.
§ Mr. SmithWill the hon. Gentleman explain what is the locus standi of the National Maritime Board and from what funds they are paying any money: whether they are supplied with funds by the Government, and, if not, from what sources?
§ Mr. ButlerI should want notice of that question.
§ Mr. H. G. WilliamsIf the Burgos Government is not recognised, is not the responsibility for this damage upon the Valencia Government?
§ 12. Mr. Benjamin Smithasked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that, since last January, 125 attacks have been made on British ships trading to Spain; that 14 of these ships have been sunk and 75 damaged; that the casualties resulting from these attacks were 40 officers and men killed and 68 wounded; that, despite the declaration of the Burgos authorities to the contrary, British ships are the object of deliberate attack; and whether he will take such immediate protective steps as are in keeping with the King's Regulations and Admiralty Instructions and the observance of international law?
§ 15. Mr. G. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that His Majesty's Government now consider that there is no danger of the Spanish conflict developing into a European war, he will afford protection for British ships within Spanish territorial waters, carrying food and other non-contraband, against deliberate bombing from the air?
§ Mr. ButlerThe Government's information does not differ substantially from the hon. Member's statistics. I have just informed the hon. Member of the discussions which have been proceeding with the British interests concerned. As was stated on 14th June last, His Majesty's Government will continue to afford protection, as hitherto, to British ships on the high seas. They are, however, convinced that such protection cannot be given in territorial waters, unless this country is prepared to take an active part in hostilities.
§ Mr. SmithWill the hon. Gentleman advise the House as to whether he has had reference to Article 949 of the King's and Admiralty Regulations where, if violence is applied to any British ships, even in territorial waters, our ships are 470 empowered to defend those vessels; and whether, in fact, not having granted belligerent rights to Franco, that regulation is not being abrogated?
§ Mr. ButlerI have announced Government policy in this matter and I cannot alter that. I will certainly read the Article to which the hon. Member has called attention.
§ Mr. StraussIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the main reason given by the Government for refusal to protect British ships in territorial waters is that it might lead to a European conflict, and, as that possibility is now out of the way, why is this proper protection not granted?
§ Mr. ButlerThat is precisely the way to widen the conflict.
§ 16. Mr. G. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether he can now make any statement about the supply of foodstuffs to the societies in Spain undertaking humanitarian work?
§ Mr. ButlerHis Majesty's Government are consulting their representatives in Spain as to the possibilities of an arrangement being reached whereby the contending Spanish parties will refrain from interfering with the passage to Spanish ports of certain vessels carrying foodstuffs on behalf of approved relief organisations. I have no further statement to make on this subject at present.
§ Mr. Straussin view of the fact that the possibility of an agreement being come to depends actually on General Franco, do the Government really consider that General Franco is likely to help the Government to get food in view of this policy?
§ Mr. ButlerI really cannot accept the statement made by the hon. Gentleman. He knows as well as anybody else that His Majesty's Government have done their best to relieve distress in Spain, and we are showing further that we are trying now to give help in this important matter.
§ Colonel WedgwoodCan the hon. Gentleman say how we are to send the foodstuffs to the people of Valencia and that part of Spain when the ships are wrecked before they get there; and is it not in the interests of humanity that food should be allowed into that part of Spain; and what is he going to do about it?
§ Mr. ButlerAnd that is why we are making this approach to try to assist in this matter.
§ Colonel WedgwoodThen why are we allowing our ships to be bombed?
§ 17. Mr. G. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether, prior to the decision of His Majesty's Government to bring into operation the Anglo-Italian Treaty, any assurance was given by Italy that her war material in Spain would be withdrawn or that she would not send further supplies?
§ 32. Mr. Wedgwood Bennasked the Prime Minister whether the assurance he received that no further Italian troops will be sent to Spain covers the dispatch of airmen, aircraft, artillery and other material?
§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain)The assurances given by the Italian Government were communicated to the House on 2nd November. They related, first, to the withdrawal of the remaining Italian forces; secondly, to the question of the despatch of further Italian troops to Spain; and thirdly to the suggestion of sending compensatory air forces in lieu of the infantry which had now been withdrawn. The question of Italian war material is dealt with in the notes which were exchanged between the two Governments at the same time as the conclusion of the Agreement, and which will be found upon page 29 of the White Paper (Command 5726).
§ Mr. BennDoes that mean that hereafter, at once, supplies of men and material into Spain will cease?
§ The Prime MinisterIt means what it says.
§ Mr. BennIt is not quite clear. Does it mean that they cease now or that they cease on the coming into force of non-intervention?
§ The Prime MinisterI have given the House the full assurances that were given us by the Italian Government.
§ Mr. BennSurely, there is a real misconception here. Are we to understand that once that assurance was given to the Prime Minister supplies of Italian troops and material would thereupon cease?
§ The Prime MinisterI think the right hon. Gentleman is trying to put more into the assurances than they actually had.
26. Mr. J. J. Davidsonasked the Prime Minister the exact terms of the instructions to all British ships engaged in legitimate trade with Spain not to use the Union Jack for the burial of British sailors killed by bombing planes?
§ Mr. ButlerMy Noble Friend has no knowledge of any such instructions.
Mr. DavidsonWhile I welcome that assurance, will His Majesty's Government protect these burial rights of British sailors in the event of belligerent rights being granted to General Franco?
§ Mr. ButlerI think my answer will certainly be that His Majesty's Government will always respect burial rights.
§ 29. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister what was the date of the first conversations between His Majesty's Government and the Italian Government in which Signor Mussolini made it known that he was not prepared to see General Franco defeated in the present war in Spain?
§ Mr. ButlerThe hon. Member, no doubt, has in mind a statement made in another place by my Noble Friend, who was referring on that occasion to public statements made by Signor Mussolini, and not to conversations between His Majesty's Government and the Italian Government.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerDid not the Foreign Secretary say that it was made plain in the first conversations, and is it not a fact that Signor Mussolini did not make any such categorical statement at that time?
§ Mr. ButlerI would point out that my Noble Friend stated that Signor Mussolini had made it plain at the time of the first conversations.
§ Mr. BennDid he not say that Signor Mussolini had made it plain to our representative from the start, and can the Under-Secretary say whether that statement of Signor Mussolini was communicated to the French Ministers at the same time, namely, in February of this year?
§ Mr. ButlerI should require notice of that question. The answer to the first part is that I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to the words of my Noble Friend—that Signor Mussolini had always made it clear from the time of the first conversations.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIf the Government understood that from that time Signor Mussolini was insisting upon a victory for General Franco, why did they allow the House to believe that his acceptance of the British formula would mean an end of intervention?
§ Mr. ButlerThe hon. Member's question is full of generalities, and I should not like to accept it.