HC Deb 21 May 1935 vol 302 cc1009-13

6.20 p.m.

Sir S. HOARE

I beg to move, in page 135, line 24, to leave out from the be ginning, to "appoint," in line 28, and to insert: Until Parliament otherwise deter mines, the Secretary of State may for the purpose of securing efficiency in irrigation in any Province. This Amendment deals with the Irrigation Service. The original proposal in the Bill was that the Secretary of State should be given the power to start re-crusting again for the Irrigation Service if he were satisfied that the Service was deteriorating through want of European officers. It was pointed out in the Committee that it might be no great ad vantage to allow the Secretary of State to resume recruitment when in the interval some fatal injury might have been inflicted on the Service. The Amend- ment is intended to meet that difficulty. It gives the Secretary of State power to recruit in cases where he thinks it is necessary from the beginning of the operation of the reforms. He will have to judge the cases on their merits, but it does not a tall follow that what would be done in the case of one Province would apply to another. It will, however, be his duty to satisfy himself that the recruitment conditions are satisfactory and that they are satisfactory from the be ginning of the changes.

6.22 p.m.

Sir H. CROFT

May I express gratitude that this very small concession has been made? I think it will add to the confidence and the efficiency of the Ser vice. There is one point which I think, is sometimes forgotten and that is that in this country we have no means of training men for irrigation, and if the Service in India did break down it would be absolutely impossible suddenly to telegraph to England: "Send out some irrigation officials." They would know nothing about it. They would not know the language, the rotation of crops and all those very important subjects in connection with this very vital service, which is one of the two most important questions for the whole of the Indian people. This Amendment does seem to help in that direction. I think that all those who have been sitting on the various grand inquests for the last seven years will bear me out when I say that practically the whole of the training for the Irrigation Service has been done in India. That has been the great school for this wonderful work, which has been so successful.

I would remind the House that in the report of the Statutory Committee they very clearly laid it down that it is essential that we should have a much bigger hold with the irrigation officials in the future. They said: We ourselves see strong advantages in the preservation of All-India recruitment, particularly for the Irrigation Service. An irrigation work like the Sukkur Barrage is to the vast territory which it supplies with water what the Assouan Dam is to Egypt; it is the basis of its whole economic being. The success of such a project depends not only on the efficiency of its construction but on the supervision of its subsequent administration.? Therefore, it is clear what the Statutory Committee thought on the subject. To the extent provided in the Amendment the Secretary of State will be able to see that the recruitment in the future is not altogether eliminated from British sources, and that will certainly help. I am grateful for this small concession.

Mr. KIRKPATRICK

I hope my right hon. Friend will bear in mind the method of recruitment of irrigation engineers, which has produced in the past probably the best engineers in the world. I refer not only to Indians and Anglo-Indians but Britishers educated in India. I hope that source of supply will not be over looked and that they will continue to be appointed by the Secretary of State for those appointments which are known as Secretary of State services.

6.27 p.m.

Sir R. CRADDOCK

In Committee I laid stress on the great importance of irrigation in India and the necessity of keeping up the efficiency of the Service and the supply of expert irrigation engineers. I am glad that the Secretary of State has moved the Amendment, and that he will not have to wait for evidence of serious inefficiency before he starts recruitment. I endorse every thing that my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Bournemouth (Sir H. Croft) said about the impossibility of sending for irrigation engineers from England in case of a breakdown. To begin with, until the irrigation engineer has obtained administrative rank as a superintendent engineer he cannot have influence in controlling the large staff below that rank. It would take him from 15 to 18 years' service before he would be fit to perform the duties of superintendent irrigation engineer. No time must be lost in providing for this irrigation work. Although the subject was reserved, the Government have for several years past not recruited any new irrigation officers. I am not quite sure of the reason for that but I gathered from certain statements made to the Joint Select Committee that it was difficult to induce young entrants in this country to go out for the Irrigation Ser vice.

It is, therefore, all the more incumbent on the Secretary of State to begin the work of filling up the vacancies in the proportion of British officers in the Service, which the Lee Commission, of which I was a member, recommended should be 40 per cent. The British recruitment has not been filled up for some years past and it is obvious that there must be something to make good. The Simon Commission said that as regards appointments in the Service they agreed with the Lee Commission and hoped that that system of recruitment would continue. The important point about recruitment for this Service when a proportion is fixed is that the proportion should go up evenly. The moment you recruit on one side Indians for, say, two or three years and then there is a gap and you get one or two British officers in you find difficulties hereafter in regard to promotion. Everyone knows that Indians are likely to stay their full time, with the result that they create a group at the top of the Service which blocks the general flow of promotion.

I urge the Secretary of State to have great regard to the importance of making the contributions of each race in the strata of the Service go forward parallel with each other. It is also most important that the inquiry into the state of the Service in the various provinces should not be allowed to hangover for a long time. Indeed, I think action should be taken from the time when power is conferred upon the Secretary of State, and that he should institute, with the least possible delay, an inquiry into the state of the Irrigation Service and the distribution of posts between the two races. That inquiry should be instituted in advance, and he should use his powers to avoid any gaps in the seniority of British officers in the Service. I am grateful that the Secretary of State has met the criticism made in this respect, and I hope he will not wait until a position is reached when it might be too late.

6.33 p.m.

Mr. C. WILLIAMS

I congratulate the Secretary of State on having, at least on this occasion, got the support of every sensible person in the House on the very important matter of irrigation. It is very important that the Secretary of State should have the power of getting the essential officers, and that they should be men of the widest possible experience. From India some of the best irrigation officers have been sent to other places and in making these appointments to the Service, I hope that the Secretary of State will get into the closest possible co operation with those engaged in dealing with irrigation in other parts of the Empire, so that we may get the best possible officers for this Service.

Amendment agreed to.