HC Deb 30 April 1934 vol 289 cc21-3
38. Mr. LUNN

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, in view of the fact that the South African Government is considering sending a note to the British Government concerning the transfer of the Protectorates to the Union of South Africa, whether he will communicate to General Hertzog the recent declarations of His Majesty's Government that no such transfer could be contemplated without the consent of this House and of the native populations concerned?

The SECRETARY OF STATE for DOMINION AFFAIRS (Mr. J. H. Thomas)

I have received no communication from His Majesty's Government in the Union containing General Hertzog's statement in the Union Parliament, but, in view of the Press reports, it may be convenient to state the position of His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom. When the South Africa Bill was before the House of Commons in 1908, the then Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies stated, on behalf of the Government, that the House will have the fullest opportunity of considering the matter before the transfer of the Protectorates, and, at a later stage in the Debate, he stated that the wishes of the natives in these territories will be most carefully considered before any transfer takes place. These assurances were repeated in this House in November, 1919. In February, 1925, the then Secretary of State for the Colonies, in reply to a question in the House, stated : In accordance with the pledges given when the South Africa Bill was before Parliament, the House will have the fullest opportunity of discussing, and, if they wish, of disapproving, any proposed transfer of these territories to the Union "; And at the same time, it was stated in another place on behalf of the Government that the Government will not make any decision until the native population and the white population have had full opportunity of expressing their views, and any representations which either the native population or the white population may make to His Majesty's Government will receive the most careful consideration before the Government come to any final decision in regard to the matter. These pledges were repeated on behalf of the present Government both by myself in this House, and also in another place, in July last. Copies of them were communicated, to General Smuts whilst he was in this country last year.

Mr. LUNN

While appreciating the statement which the right hon. Gentleman has made, may I ask whether it is not the fact that up to now the natives in these - Protectorates have been unanimously against being brought within the Union of South Africa?

Mr. THOMAS

I have not received the communication of General Hertzog—it is on its way—and it would be unwise for me to comment in advance having regard to the grave importance of this question. I thought it my duty to the House to leave them in no doubt as to the Government's views.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

But there is a doubt. The right hon. Gentleman says that the views of the natives will receive the fullest consideration from His Majesty's Government. Can we be sure that that means that if the natives to a large degree are against transfer to the Union their view will prevail?

Mr. THOMAS

It means that His Majesty's Government will be bound to take into consideration the native view and the white view, and, in doing so, the right hon. and gallant Gentleman must trust His Majesty's Government to do, as it always does, the right thing.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

What does the right hon. Gentleman mean by white opinion? There is no white opinion in Swaziland or Basutoland. Does he mean white opinion in the Protectorates or white opinion outside the Protectorates?

Mr. THOMAS

Both.

Captain Sir WILLIAM BRASS

May I ask how the native opinion in Swaziland will be made known to the Government?

Mr. THOMAS

That will depend on those making the representation. It is not for me to make suggestions.