HC Deb 30 June 1932 vol 267 cc2098-100

Lords Amendment: In page 30, line 26, after the word "homes," insert: Provided that where a place or places of detention have been provided under the principal Act which are suitable for use as remand homes and so long as such place or places are adequately maintained they shall be deemed to be remand homes and there shall be no obligation on any council to provide further or additional accommodation in pursuance of this Section.

Mr. STANLEY

I beg to move, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

I think the whole conception on which this Amendment was moved was erroneous, and certainly the Amendment itself is framed in such a way as to show that the real position as regards places of detention and remand homes was not appreciated. There has been up to now an obligation upon the police authorities to provide and maintain places of detention under this Bill and now a similar obligation is placed upon local authorities to provide remand homes. The fear in the other place is that in some way or other this is going to cause more expense. It does nothing of the kind. A remand home and a place of detention are for exactly the same purpose though called by different names. They are going to be maintained by different authorities, but the standard of efficiency which the Home Office requires of a place of detention is no less and no greater than the standard which the Statute and the Home Office will require of remand homes. In any case the fears of another place were quite unnecessary, and any Amendment was really unnecessary, but the particular Amendment which they have made, and with which I am asking this House to disagree, is in any case impossible, because it presupposes that every place which up to now has been used as a place of detention will, when this Measure comes into operation, be available to be used as a remand home. That overlooks the fact that up to now places of detention have been the responsibility of the police authorities.

Remand homes will be the responsibility of the local authorities, and it may well be that the police authorities may not be willing to transfer places now used as places of detention to the local authorities, because they may have some alternative use for it. Whether or not that is ever likely to happen in practice I do not know, but the local authority, the county council, for instance, will have no authority to demand that the place hitherto under the control of the police authority shall be transferred to them. That is why it is impossible to accept this Amendment, because hon. Members will see that if it were possible to say that a certain building which the police autority have hitherto maintained as a place of detention, but which they refuse to transfer to the local authority, is still kept in being for some quite different purpose, it could still be deemed to be a remand home, and no further provision would have to be made for a remand home in that district. For these two reasons, first, that I think the fears expressed in another place were quite groundless, because no new obligation is put on local authorities as a whole, the obligation only being transferred from one authority to another, and because the particular Amendment is in form quite impracticable I ask the House to disagree with it.

Subsequent Lords Amendments, to page 31, line 43, agreed to.