§ 10. Colonel GODFREY COLLINSasked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will state what steps he proposes to take, in view of the decision to discontinue the employment of military or German 287 prisoners of war to provide suitable accommodation for the shipyard workers at the national shipyards?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara)The employment of civilian labour for ship construction when the yards have been completed will necessitate the provision of housing accommodation, over and above that already being proceeded, with, to meet the needs of married men; and with this object in view a scheme has been drawn up and plans prepared by the Department of the Controller-General of Merchant Shipbuilding. The matter is being pushed forward with the utmost possible expedition.
§ 13. Mr. FRANCEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty if it has been definitely decided to abandon the proposal to use military labour in the national shipyards; if so, what arrangements are being made to supply labour for these yards; and what percentage of it will be skilled?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAIn so far as the actual construction of ships is concerned, the answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative.
After a careful review of the situation and on the advice of the Controller-General of Merchant Shipbuilding, it is proposed to undertake ship construction by civilian labour. Such of the Royal Engineers, at present engaged on the completion of the yards, as may be suitably qualified, will, when this work is done, be transferred to Class "W" Reserve and be employed on ship construction under civilian management and will be paid civilian rates of pay.
As has been repeatedly stated in this House, the design of the ships to be constructed in the national yards has been simplified to the greatest possible extent so as to utilise the least possible amount of skilled labour. I cannot exactly state what percentage of skilled labour will be required for the assembling of these fabricated ships, but it will be a very small one. As I have previously stated, there is no intention of calling upon the private shipyards for any skilled labour; though we may, by agreement, obtain from them a certain number of foremen and leading hands.
§ Mr. FRANCEIs it a fact that more than six months ago the Department was 288 advised that it would be impossible and impracticable to employ military labour in these yards, and how does he propose to get skilled labour from the yards without coming to some arrangement that will deprive them of the skilled labour which is necessary for them to carry on their work at present?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI cannot recall the advice which was said to be given six months ago, but as regards the latter part of the question I would remind the hon. Gentleman that we have asked for Vote 8 to be put down at the earliest possible moment, and the Leader of the House may be able to announce to-day or to-morrow when the whole matter may be fully discussed.
§ Sir E. CARSONCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether there is not at the present time a great shortage of labour in the existing shipyards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI should presently say there is a shortage of one particular trade, but I should like to have notice before I make a statement as regards the whole field.
§ Mr. KINGHas anything been done in regard to the housing conditions in connection with these yards? Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware of the complaints which have been made up to the present time about the conditions of housing at one of these yards?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member had better put that question down on the Paper.
§ 14. Mr. FRANCEasked how many of the seventy new berths for merchant ships authorised as extensions of existing private shipyards have now been completed; whether arrangements have been made to keep them fully occupied and adequately supplied with labour; and whether it is still intended to fully utilise private yards and their extensions adequately supplied with the necessary labour before men and material are diverted to the national shipyards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe number of new slips sanctioned for the construction of merchant ships in private yards is eighty-seven and not seventy, as stated by my hon. Friend, and of this number fourteen have already been completed.
As far as I am aware, these new berths are fully supplied with both material and 289 labour, except in a few cases where there is a shortage of a particular shipyard trade in that district, and it is expected that this state of affairs will continue.
With regard to the last part of the question, I may remind my hon. Friend of the pledge given in the House by the First Lord on 1st November last year, when he stated that we would not use the national yards until such time as existing yards were working to the utmost of their economic capacity. This pledge will be adhered to.
§ Mr. FRANCECan the right hon. Gentleman say when it is intended to complete the seventy-three slips which have already been sanctioned but which have not been completed, and where the labour is to be obtained for these seventy-three new slips if labour is diverted to the national shipyard before the others are completed?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI do not think labour will be diverted to the national shipyards; and with regard to the seventy-three slips of the eighty-seven, I should be glad if my hon. Friend will go through the statements of progress which can be seen week by week.
§ Mr. G. TERRELLAre we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's answer that all work has now been stopped in the national shipyards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARACertainly not. Lord Pirrie, the Controller-General of merchant shipbuilding, issued a statement to the Press on the 27th June, in the course of which he said, "I am assuming personal responsibility for running the national shipyards, and believe they will form a great asset to the nation and the means of substantially increasing the output of merchant ships."
§ Mr. TERRELLHave any ships been completed in any of these national yards?
§ Dr. MACNAMARANo; the yards themselves are not completed. The slips are not completed, and no keel has been laid.
§ Mr. PRINGLECan the right hon. Gentleman indicate when the prediction which he has quoted is likely to be fulfilled?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI do not know to what prediction the hon. Gentleman refers. I quoted a statement of Lord Pirrie.
§ Mr. PRINGLEThere is a prediction in which he says that these shipyards are going to be a great national asset in the production of ships.
§ Dr. MACNAMARALord Pirrie is the highest authority and a great expert upon these matters, and he has stated deliberately that, so far from their being shut up, they will be, in his opinion, a great asset to the nation, and will mean a substantial increase in the output of merchant ships. I have quoted that as being relevant.
§ Mr. PRINGLEWill the right hon. Gentleman state the date on which that prediction is likely to be fulfilled—that is the only relevance the quotation can have?
§ 15. Mr. FRANCEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty if his attention has been called to a statement recently issued by the Controller-General of Merchant Shipbuilding, to the effect that no ships were to be built at the national shipyards until these yards had been completed; whether this is intended to include the completion of housing accommodation; if so, will he say what is the building scheme; who is in charge of it; and how long will it take to complete it?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe statement to which my hon. Friend refers was issued with the full knowledge and concurrence of the Admiralty. A scheme for providing accommodation especially for married men has, as I have just said, been prepared. It will be carried out locally by General Collard under the general direction of Lord Pirrie. I am not at the moment in a position to state any date at which it is contemplated the accommodation will be complete.
§ Mr. HERBERT SAMUELCan the right hon. Gentleman say what it will cost for this housing scheme?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe original cost for the hutments for single men is in the Estimates, but for the married men there will be an additional cost. That is part of the plan which is being put forward with all expedition.
§ Mr. FRANCECan the right hon. Gentleman give the House any information as to the number of married men for whom housing accommodation is to be supplied, and, approximately, the cost of this very extensive scheme, and if the House is to have an opportunity of discussing 291 a further considerable addition of money to that already spent upon this scheme before any further work is proceeded with?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAUndoubtedly over and above the £3,887,000, whch includes hutments for single men, there will be additional expenditure in respect of the married men. I will do my best to get from Lord Pirrie exactly what he expects the cost will be, and I think it would be possible to make a statement in regard to that on Vote 8 on the early date on which we expect to take that Vote.
§ Mr. FRANCEAnd before the work is started upon these buildings the House will have an opportunity of considering the vast expenditure of money before it is embarked upon?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI agree with the propriety of placing the matter fully before the House, but I do not think it will be a vast expenditure.
§ Mr. KINGBefore a great number of new buildings are put up, will the existing housing accommodation be made watertight, healthy, and possible for people to live in in decency?
§ Dr. MACNAMARASo far as I have seen it, it fulfils all those qualifications.