HC Deb 17 December 1912 vol 45 cc1301-2
81. Mr. HOARE

asked the Home Secretary what are the Acts and Sections of Acts which are repealed or amended by the Established Church (Wales) Bill; and whether he will add a Schedule to the Bill setting out their dates and the extent and effect of their repeal?

Mr. McKENNA

All Ecclesiastical Law and all Acts of Parliament, in so far as they are part of Ecclesiastical Law, cease to exist as law in Wales and Monmouthshire under the Established Church (Wales) Bill, but all the provisions of such law are deemed to be revived and have a binding effect on a contractual basis, unless subsequently altered by the new constitution of the Disestablished Church. The answer to the latter part of the question is in the negative.

Mr. HOARE

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the case of the Irish Church the list of the Acts repealed was announced to the House, and does he not think it would be a matter for the convenience of the House generally if we knew what Acts were definitely asked either to amend or repeal in discussing this important Bill?

Mr. McKENNA

I think it would be misleading to put into the Bill any list of Statutes which it was proposed to repeal, inasmuch as the law will remain after the Bill is passed precisely the same as it was before it passed, unless it is altered by the Disestablished Church, and it is far better, I think, to leave the totality of the law untouched by any provision in the Church Bill.

Mr. HOARE

Is the right hon. Gentleman referring to Statute Law?

Mr. McKENNA

I am referring both to Ecclesiastical Law and so much of Statute Law as is included in Ecclesiastical Law.

Mr. HOARE

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean to say that the representative body of the Welsh Church could alter Statute Law -without coming to this House at all?

Mr. SPEAKER

That seems to be a matter to be argued on the Committee stage.

Lord ROBERT CECIL

May I ask why in Sub-section (4), Clause 3, power is given to alter Statute Law if none of it is to exist as Statute Law?

Mr. McKENNA

The Noble Lord has not quite caught the effect of the Bill. The law will cease to exist as law on the passing of the Bill, but all the provisions of the law will be revived on a contractual basis, and therefore all the 'provisions will be binding on all the members of the Church of England in Wales, unless those provisions are hereafter modified by the representative Body of the Church.

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

Will the right hon. Gentleman make an exception in the case of Statute Law?

Mr. SPEAKER

That is a matter for argument when the point is reached in Committee.