§ 26. Mr. T. M. HEALYasked whether, in opposition to the unanimous opinion of Irish cattle traders, including Mr. Gavin Low, the Department's expert adviser, he persists in refusing to slaughter on the farm at Swords where the last reported outbreak occurred; whether he will now take steps to have all the cattle on this farm slaughtered; and whether, as Ireland has only shown disease in this small district, he will press the English Department to permit fat cattle coming by rail from outside this area to be shipped from Dublin, Dundalk, and Drogheda for immediate slaughter at Birkenhead and other foreign wharves, and thus save Irish farmers from enormous uncompensated loss?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Department have slaughtered on the farm at Swords, where the last case of foot-and-mouth disease occurred, all the cattle which were in the infected field. The remainder of the stock to the number of over 800 have been isolated, and are kept under close and daily observation. No symptom of the disease has yet appeared in any of these animals, and unless it does the Department would not be justified in ordering their slaughter. Mr. Gavin Low is not an expert adviser of the Department. He is only employed for the purpose of valuing animals ordered to be slaughtered. The Department are not aware that the cattle traders generally have expressed the opinion suggested in the question. With regard to the last paragraph of the question, I would refer the hon. and learned Member to the reply which I gave yesterday to the question of the hon. Member for North Meath on this subject, and to the replies of my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Agriculture.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether while the Department in Dublin are refusing to allow these cattle to be put upon trains for the ports, they are permitting them to be walked 2236 through the various districts, including the city of Dublin; and if the cattle can be walked through districts, why cannot they be allowed on trains; whether also Mr. Gavin Low did not make a recommendation that these cattle should be slaughtered?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI do not, of course, know about Mr. Gavin Low, but I rather gather from the tenour of the answer he probably did. I will make inquiries with regard to the movements of the cattle.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is the general policy of the English Board of Agriculture to slaughter all animals on the affected farm, and all in-contact animals on the adjoining farm, and is he aware that the policy of the Irish Department is causing considerable apprehension to English stock owners?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI will call the attention of the Vice-President of the Department in Ireland to that. The animals in the affected field were slaughtered and all the other animals are isolated and are subject to daily inspection, and the moment they stow any symptoms of the disease they will be slaughtered. I will communicate the hon. Member's observations to the Vice-President.
§ Viscount HELMSLEYDo the Irish Department consider they know the accurate period of incubation and what will that be?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Noble Lord knows as well as I do there is difference of opinion as to what the period of incubation should be, but the Irish Department think they have good information of what the period is, and until it is expired they feel they are not at liberty to allow those animals to be moved.
§ Mr. FIELDIs it not a fact that these 800 cattle were not in contact with the other cattle and were in a different part of the farm altogether?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThat is so.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYMay I ask whether, if there is no danger from these animals, and if they are not to be slaughtered, why should all the other cattle traders in Ireland be held up because of these cattle?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI suppose because you cannot be certain for a certain period that the animals are free.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEWould the right hon. Gentleman give the period of time in which the experts have reported to the Board of Agriculture that the cattle will be free?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI cannot give that information, and I am not sure whether any one is in a position to give such information or whether any importance attaches to it.
§ Mr. KILBRIDEIs it not a fact that there has been no case in Ireland for the last fourteen days, and whether it is not generally held by experts that after ten days the cattle are immune?
§ Mr. BIRRELLWith regard to the fourteen days the hon. Member is right, but whether ten days is sufficient or not is another matter.
§ 27. Mr. C. BATHURSTasked whether, in view of the mystery surrounding the reappearance after many years of foot-and-mouth disease in Ireland, the serious spread of the disease in England, and the suspicion resting upon the administration of his Department in the matter, he will appoint an independent Departmental or, in conjunction with the Board of Agriculture, an Interdepartmental Committee to inquire into the origin and development of the disease?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe appearance of foot-and-mouth disease in Ireland twenty-nine years ago was due to its introduction from England. I am not aware of any suspicion resting upon the administration of the Department. As at present advised, I see no necessity for the appointment of a Committee such as is suggested.
§ Mr. C. BATHURSTIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the disease did appear in Ireland twenty-nine years ago it spread to every county in Ireland but one, showing the danger there is in that country owing to atmospheric conditions?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI am not able to say that, but On this occasion it is confined to Swords.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINWill the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of appointing an Interdepartmental Committee in order to harmonise the methods of dealing with the outbreaks in England and in Ireland, and to secure equal confidence in people on both sides of the Channel in the administration of the law?
§ Mr. BIRRELLIf this admirable result could be accomplished by such an Interdepartmental Committee I think such a Committee should be adopted. I will convey the opinion to my right hon. Friend.
§ Mr. FIELDMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he knows as a matter of fact that according to the evidence brought forward this outbreak was imported from England into Ireland and that in recent years there have been outbreaks of the disease in England and none in Ireland?
§ Mr. BIRRELLYes, we know about that.