HC Deb 24 May 1911 vol 26 cc255-7
Mr. GINNELL

asked the Prime Minister if he can state the names or the number of members of the committee investigating Ireland's financial position for the benefit of the Cabinet who agree, and the names or the number of members of that committee who disagree, with the majority of the Financial Relations Commission that the equitable ratio in which Great Britain and Ireland should be taxed is the proportion of their respective surplus incomes, after deducting a minimum of £12 per head of population in each country for subsistence; and if he can state the Treasury estimate of this proportion?

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)

I know nothing of the opinions of the members of the committee, and I am not aware that the Treasury have ever made such an estimate as is referred to in the question.

Mr. GINNELL

Do the Government agree with the ratio mentioned in the question, and has the committee been furnished with Estimates based on that ratio?

Mr. BIRRELL

No, Sir, it has not.

Mr. GINNELL

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he would state the estimated proportion of Ireland's taxable capacity to that of Great Britain, as indicated by the present power of the respective countries to raise money on public credit; and whether it is estimated that restitution now of the £320,000,000 excessive taxes taken from Ireland in the past, with interest, would enable Ireland to dispense with any public loan until her financial condition had improved under self-government?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

Since the union of the Exchequers it has been impossible to offer the separate security of the revenues either of Great Britain or of Ireland for a public loan, and there is, therefore, no material for such a comparison as is suggested in the first part of the question. I cannot, of course, admit the suggestion underlying the second part of the question, which raises matter for argument rather than for interrogation, nor am I in a position to make any estimate of the amount of the public loans (if any) which the Government of Ireland would think it necessary to raise in the event of self-government being established.

Mr. GINNELL

asked whether any subsequent investigation had disturbed the findings of the Financial Relations Commission that, during the sixteen years which followed the Union, the annual revenue actually raised from Ireland was on the average rather more than thrice that raised during the sixteen years which immediately preceded the Union, and that, during the same period, while the total British National Debt had less than doubled itself, the Irish National Debt had almost quadrupled itself?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

So far as I am aware, the precise point referred to in the question has not been made the subject of investigation since the Commission reported.

Mr. GINNELL

asked whether, in estimating the taxable capacity of Great Britain and Ireland, any sum is deducted from the income of Ireland and added to that of Great Britain, representing the drain of rent, and now of purchase money, to absentee landlords, as agreed by the majority of the Financial Relations Commission; and, if so, what the sum is?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE

There are no official estimates of the taxable capacity either of Great Britain or of Ireland.

Mr. GINNELL

asked whether any of the statistics, returns, calculations, or other matter submitted to the Committee in- vestigating Ireland's financial relations for the benefit of the Cabinet have been or will be prepared by any of those Treasury officials whose calculations broke down in the working of the Irish Land Act of 1903, and had to be abandoned by Parliament when attempting to remedy the financial defects of that Act?

Mr. BIRRELL

As the Prime Minister stated on Monday, the Government has no information as to the names of the officials who were concerned in framing the financial provisions of the Irish Land Act of 1903.

Mr. GINNELL

Is there any reason for concealment of these accounts of public money other than the reason common to all concealed accounts?

Mr. BIRRELL

Oh, no; there is nothing to conceal about them.