Mr. FRED HALLasked whether some of the strongest friendly societies for 7½d. per week grant benefits to the extent of 12s. per week for 12 months, 6s. per week for a further 12 months, and 3s. per week continuously till recovery or death, with death benefits in addition; and, if so, why 417 is it that the Government for much less benefits demand 9d. per week in all?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEIf the hon. Member will refer to the actuaries' report he will see that the cost of medical benefit, sanatorium benefit, and maternity benefit amounts to nearly 2½d., and that the 9d. per week includes a disposable margin of ¾d. Moreover, it also includes the amount to be accumulated to make up the deficiency due to the admission of persons of all ages up to sixty-five to the National Health Insurance. If he will refer to the Bill he will find that any surplus which may be realised, whether in consequence of an over-estimate of the contributions or for any other reason, is applicable for the benefit of the contributors.
Mr. FRED HALLCan the right hon. Gentleman give a clear reply to the question I have put? Why do the Government charge so much, seeing that greater benefits are obtainable for the same sum from the friendly societies?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI am afraid the hon. Member did not pay me the compliment to listen to my answer. If he will take time to consider it I think he will find it is a full reply to his question.
The right hon. Gentleman then repeated the answer.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEWe are giving benefits which are very considerably larger than those which the societies give.
Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANSasked whether the totals given in Table X., on page 27 of Cd. 5681 include the annual charge in respect of the State proportion of benefits payable to deposit contributors; and, if so, whether, for the purpose of such calculation, it has been assumed that a deposit contributor will receive the same average annual amount of benefit as a member of an approved society; if such totals do not include the State proportion of benefit payable to deposit contributors, what is it estimated that the latter will amount to in each of the years 1912–13 to 1927–8?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEPerhaps I may be allowed to refer the hon. Member to 418 the following explanation appended by the actuaries to the Table to which he refers:—
Neither has any allowance been made of the State grant in respect of 'deposit' contributors, as it is not possible to estimate what amounts will be drawn out from deposit in the form of benefits; in any case it could only be a small fraction of the total expenditure shown in Table X.
Mr. WORTHINGTON-EVANSDocs it cover the amount of the subsidy to the deposit contributors or does it not?
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI have already said it does, subject to what the actuaries say. I cannot answer the question except by incorporating explanation given by the actuaries.