§ Mr. SNOWDENasked the Home Secretary if a meeting recently called by the prison warders for the consideration of their conditions of service was prohibited by his instructions; if an order was recently issued by the Prison Commissioners, with his approval, forbidding prison warders to form a federation or to join together in any way to discuss their grievances; and will he state why the freedom enjoyed by other branches of the public service is denied to these men?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLPrison officers are permitted by the Standing Orders to discuss among themselves questions relating to their conditions of service, and, with the sanction of the Governor, to hold meetings for the purpose at their respective prisons. No new Order has been made on this subject; but when, a few days ago, it was proposed by a person unconnected with the service to hold a meeting of prison officers at an hotel in London, the Commissioners pointed out in a circular to their staff that this was contrary to the Standing Orders. The conditions of service cannot, for obvious reasons, be made the same for all branches of the public service, and disciplined forces must be governed by special regulations. It would not be possible to allow a trade union to be formed among prison warders any more than among policemen (who closely resemble them) or among the soldiers and sailors of His Majesty's Army and Navy. I am satisfied, however, that prison officers have proper opportunities of bringing their views on matters which concern them before their superiors, and I shall give careful attention to any of their representations.
§ Mr. WILLIAM THORNEIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that if the men are not allowed to organise publicly they will organise secretly?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLPrison warders are permitted, under the Standing Orders, to hold meetings, and may make any representations they choose to the Prison Commissioners or the Home Secretary. They have been reminded quite recently of their rights in this respect.
§ Mr. W. THORNEDo officials insist upon being present at any of the meetings held by the prison warders?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLPrison warders are themselves officials——
§ Mr. W. THORNEI mean the higher officials?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLNo, no; there is no objection at all to prison warders considering the conditions of their service and making representations on the subject to the Home Office. There is no need for a superior official to be there at all. What is contrary to the Regulations is that they should hold meetings outside for the purpose of establishing a general federation.