HC Deb 05 October 1909 vol 11 cc1838-41
Mr. GEORGE GREENWOOD

asked the President of the Board of Education whether his attention had been called to the case of the headmaster of Woodstone Schools, Peterborough, who on 22nd of September last was convicted by the magistrates at Peterborough of assaulting a little boy of eight years of age, one of the pupils at such school, by flogging him with great and unreasonable severity, and was fined £2 and £2 1s. costs; whether he was aware that the doctor who attended the boy gave evidence that on examining him he found bruises on both hands, ten weals on the body, and one on the thigh; whether he was aware that this master had been previously convicted and fined for a similar offence; and whether, in view of the frequency of such cases, he will issue a circular from the Board of Education to the masters and managers of all schools under the control and supervision of the Board directing that the punishment of flogging should be, if not abolished altogether, at least confined to the most heinous offences and administered in a humane manner?

The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of EDUCATION (Mr. Runciman)

I have seen a brief newspaper report of this case, but I have no further information concerning it. The Board have no information as to any previous conviction of the headmaster in question. The answer to the concluding paragraph of my hon. Friend's question is in the negative. I am not prepared to admit that such cases as this are of frequent occurrence, and I do not consider the issue of a circular to be either necessary or expedient. I may, however, refer my hon. Friend to the remarks on the subject of corporal punishment on page 11 of the Board's Suggestions for the Consideration of Teachers and Others, published in 1905.

Mr. GEORGE GREENWOOD

Have then the teachers a certain amount of discretion as to whether or not they shall keep a record of the administration of corporal punishment?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

A certain amount of discretion is left to the head teachers, and in practice it is never abused.

Mr. GEORGE GREENWOOD

So that there is really no reliable record of eases of corporal punishment?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

Yes. I think the records are reliable.

Mr. GEORGE GREENWOOD

They do not include all the cases.

Mr. SWIFT MacNEILL

In a case of gross assault on a child, like that referred to in the question, is the teacher to be allowed to retain his position?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

I have said the only information I have on the subject is a newspaper report. If there is any appeal I will of course consider the case.

Mr. MacNEILL

Would it not be consistent with the duty of the Board when reports of this kind go uncontradicted to inquire into them?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

I am afraid that that is not the usual procedure. It is customary to wait for appeals.

Mr. BYLES

asked whether the headmaster of the National School, Ashford, who was recently fined £5 for flogging a child of ten with great and unreasonable severity, has been dismissed; and, if not, whether the Board of Education will insist on his dismissal?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

I beg to infer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave on this subject to the hon. Member for Peterborough on the 29th September.

Mr. BYLES

Is the right ton. Gentleman aware that the answer to which he refers me does not contain the information which my question seeks?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

It is the only answer I can give.

Mr. BYLES

asked the President of the Board of Education if he will furnish the hon. Member for North Salford with a copy of the Regulations of the Board in respect to the flogging of children in the elementary schools?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

Schedule IV., 1 (e), of the Code provides that every public elementary school must have a punishment book, in which all cases of corporal punishment must be recorded. The Board do not issue any other regulations on this subject; but perhaps my hon. Friend will also study the remarks on the subject of corporal punishment on page 11 of the Board's "Suggestions for the Consideration of Teachers and Others."

Mr. BYLES

May I ask whether the Instruction that all cases of corporal punishment shall be recorded in the punishment book is not stultified by the suggestion that it is to be left to the discretion of head teachers to say what cases shall be placed on record?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

I have already replied to that question. I do not think that in practice it does stultify the Instruction. The practice has not been known to work badly.

Mr. PHILIP SNOWDEN

Is it not within the knowledge of the right hon. Gentleman that no records are made of the cases of corporal punishment?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

They are constantly made. There may be cases where they the not made. I can say nothing about that.

Sir D. F. GODDARD

What is the object of giving the exemption to certain headmasters in regard to making records?

Mr. RUNCIMAN

No exemptions are made, but it must be perfectly obvious that in a matter of this kind some discretion must be left to headmasters. We cannot pretend, either here or at the Board of Education, to lay down regulations to cover every trivial case of punishment.

Mr. GEORGE GREENWOOD

Could not some regulation be laid down to prohibit the flogging of children under eight?