HC Deb 17 August 1909 vol 9 cc1327-9

Any duty under this Part of this Act may be assessed on or in respect of any such pieces of land whether under separate occupation or not, as the Commissioners think fit; and where it is necessary for the purposes of any such assessment to apportion the value of any land, which has been valued as a whole, the value shall be apportioned by the Commissioners in such proportions as they think just.

Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN moved to leave out the words "as the Commissioners think fit."

The point I wish to raise is whether the Commissioners shall have power to assess any duty on or in respect of any pieces of land as they think fit, even though the owners do not require it. I will take the special Amendment introduced into the Bill, namely, the £100 clause. How would the concession to the extent of £100 per acre be affected by this clause? If the land is treated as one piece, and a man has expended £100 per acre on it, as this clause stands the Commissioners may divide up the land so as to deprive the owner of any advantage it was intended by the Government he should receive. This clause was drafted before that Amendment was introduced into the Bill, and I really think it requires some alteration. I am not quite certain whether the Commissioners should have, under any circumstances, the power to break up occupation for the purposes of valuation unless the owner wishes them so to do. The Commissioners have the power to apportion which may be used to the disadvantage of the owner. If the owner has not exercised the right to break up the land at the time he could do so he has no right to complain, but after the concession of the £100 clause it is a serious matter to allow the Commissioners to cut and carve where they like, and separate land on which £100 has been spent from a larger parcel of land of which it formed part, and merely deprive the taxpayer of all advantage from that land.

Sir SAMUEL EVANS

It certainly is not intended by this clause that the Commissioners should do anything in con- travention of any other provisions in the Bill. If the Commissioners did so there is an appeal under those provisions of the Bill, and if they went beyond their powers —I do not suggest they would do so—and did something which would deprive the Owner of the benefit of the £ 100 provision, the owner would be set right. I prefer to rest my answer on the ground that the Commissioners would not think fit to do anything under this section which would deprive the owner of any provision which was intended and is inserted in the Bill for his benefit.

Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON

I want to know whether due notice of this apportionment will be given to the owner of the land. That is very important. I ask the learned Solicitor-General to consider the point before we reach a later stage.

Sir SAMUEL EVANS

The notice would be served for the purposes of valuation.

7.0 A.M.

Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN

I will be satisfied with what the Solicitor-General has said if he will go a little further. I ask him to consider the possibility I have raised. He has treated the matter as if I contemplated deliberate oppressive action on the part of the Commissioners. I do not contemplate that at all, but I think very difficult questions may arise as to what land money has been spent upon. You may have spent enough money to clear 20 acres of land, but the question may arise as to whether that money has in fact been applied to the whole 20 acres or not. The Commissioners might say that in their opinion it had not, and they might cut the Gordian knot. I do not for a moment suggest that knowingly any injustice would be done, but I do think there is some danger that the Commissioners might be, misled by these words. I should be quite satisfied, however, if the Solicitor-General considers that point, and I will withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 133; Noes, 42.

Division No. 473.] AYES. [7.5 a.m.
Acland, Francis Dyke Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) Priestley, Arthur (Grantham)
Ainsworth, John Stirling Haworth, Arthur A. Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.)
Armitage, R. Hazel, Dr. A. E. W. Radford, G. H.
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) Helme, Norval Watson Rapnael, Herbert H.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough)
Barnard, E. B. Henry, Charles S. Richards, T. F. (Wolverhampton, W.)
Bvrran, Sir John Nicholson Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon. S.) Richardson, A.
Beck, A. Cecil Higham, John Sharp Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Bonn, W. (Tower Hamlets, St. George) Henhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Bowerman, C. w. Hodge, John Rogers, F. E. Newman
Brace, William Hooper, A. G. Rowlands, J.
Branch, James Horniman, Emslle John Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W.
Brooke, Stopford Howard, Hon. Geoffrey Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland)
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) Hudson, Walter Scarlsbrlck, Sir T. T. L.
Brunner, Rt. Hon. Sir J. T. (Cheshire) Jackson, R. S. Seely, Colonel
Buckmaster, Stanley O. Jenkins, J. Shackleton, David James
Burns, Rt. Hon. John Johnson, John (Gateshead) Simon, John Allsebrook
Carr-Gomm, H. W. Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) Stanley, Hon. A. Lyulph (Cheshire).
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R Jowett, F. W. Strachey, Sir Edward
Cleland, J. W. Lambert, George Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Clough, William Lamont, Norman Summerbell, T.
Clynes, J. R. Levy, Sir Maurice Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Conins, Sir Wm. J. (St. Pancras, W.) Lewis, John Herbert Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)
Cooper, G. J. Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinstead) Maclean, Donald Thomasson, Franklin
Crosfield, A. H. Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)
Crossley, William J. Macpherson, J. T. ' Tomkinson, James
Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) Toulmin, George
Davies, Timothy (Fulham) Mallet, Charles E. Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Duckworth, Sir James Markham, Arthur Basil Verney, F W.
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) Marnham, F. J. Walsh, Stephen
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) Masterman, C. F. G. Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) Middlebrook, William White, J. Dundas (Dumbartonshire)
Elibank, Master of Montagu, Hon. E. S. Whitehead, Rowland
Essex, R. W. Morrell, Philip Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Evans, Sir S. T. Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. (Kincard.) Wllkle, Alexander
Fenwick, Charles Myer, Horatio Williams, W. Llewelyn (Carmarthen).
Ferens, T. R. Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncaster) Williams, Sir Osmond (Merioneth)
Fuller, John Michael F. Parker, James (Halifax) Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herbert John Partington, Oswald Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Glover, Thomas Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford Pickersgill, Edward Hare Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Gooch, George Peabody (Bath) Pointer, J.
Hancock, J. G. Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. Joseph Pease and Captain Norton.
Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.)
NOES.
Baldwin, Stanley Gordon, J. Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Baring, Capt. Hon. G. (Winchester) Goulding, Edward Alfred Salter, Arthur Clavell
Bridgeman, W. Clive Guinness, Hon. W. E. (B. S. Edmunds) Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. A. (Worc'r.) Hill, Sir Clement Stanler, Beville
Cllve, Percy Archer Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) Starkey, John R.
Clyde, J. Avon Hunt, Rowland Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Coates, Major E. F. (Lewisham) Lane-Fox, G. R. Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire}
Courthope, G. Loyd Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich) Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid)
Cralk, Sir Henry Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) Younger, George
Dickson, Rt. Hon. Charles Scott- Morpeth, Viscount
Douglas, Rt. Hon A. Akers- Morrison-Bell, Captain TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Joynson-Hicks and Mr. Mitchell- Thomson.
Forster, Henry William Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington)
Gooch, Henry Cubltt (Peckham) Remnant, James Farquharson