HC Deb 27 April 1909 vol 4 cc180-2
Mr. GINNELL

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he will state the amount of money paid by an employé of the Irish Government to the leading pawnbroker in Ireland in 1907 for the redemption of Major Lambert's badges of the Order of St. Patrick, manufactured in 1895 by Messrs. West and Son, the Dublin jewellers, and stolen from the room in Dublin Castle from which the Crown jewels were stolen later in the same year; who supplied that redemption money; at whose instance and with what object were the police compelled to withhold from the public, from inquirers, and from the Vice-regal Crown Jewels Commission, the fact of the earlier theft of the Lambert ornaments from the same place in the same year, the names of the thief and pawner, and the other information in their possession relating to that crime, and to permit the guilty to leave the country; and whether the Irish Government have the same or similar reasons for resisting a public sworn inquiry into the theft of the Lambert ornaments as into that of the Crown jewels?

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)

The badges referred to were Major Lambert's personal property. They were stolen in 1905 by a servant, not from the room from which the Crown jewels were subsequently stolen, but from the private house in Dublin Castle occupied by Major Lambert as Chamberlain to the Lord Lieutenant of the day. The badges were pawned for £2. The theft was not discovered till 1907, when the pawnbroker, who was arranging for a sale of forfeited pledges, having ascertained the name of the owner, communicated with the police, and through them restored the badges to Major Lambert, who refunded the amount lent on them. The servant who stole the badges had then left the country, and the man who pawned them was in prison. The stealing of the badges was an ordinary case of larceny, and had no connection with the theft of the Crown jewels. No information with regard to it has been withheld, and there is no need for any inquiry.

Mr. GINNELL

Will the right hon. Gentleman inform the House, why in this particular case the Irish Government have shown as much anxiety as the criminals to withhold information to prevent effective inquiry?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member should submit a question of that character to me before he asks it. It hardly seems to arise out of the answer. Perhaps he will ask his next question?

Mr. GINNELL

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he has read all the reports made by the police appointed to investigate the thefts of valuable property committed in Dublin Castle in 1907; whether they disclose, in addition to the thefts of Crown jewels, other thefts and other indictable offences and connect named persons with those offences; and whether he will allow crime committed at the centre of Irish Government to escape Criminal investigation?

Mr. BIRRELL

The police reports referred to do not disclose any thefts or indictable offences in addition to the theft of the Crown jewels.

Mr. GINNELL

Arising out of both of these questions, is not the right hon. Gen- tleman aware of the existence of reports—if he has not read them—implicating, as principal and accomplices in theft, and also as principals in sodomy and other beastly crimes, of F. R. Shackleton and Captain Gorges—

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member has really no right to bring in the names of gentlemen in connection with matters of that sort without submitting his question to me. I will say whether it is a proper one to ask.

Mr. GINNELL

On a point of order, I am not allowed to put this question on the paper, and I am not to challenge inquiry in the Press. Am I allowed to inquire in this House?

Mr. SPEAKER

No.

Mr. GINNELL

asked the Chief Secretary if he will explain why the crimes found by the police to have been committed in Dublin Castle in 1907 are not included in the statistics of Irish crime for that year; and if he will take steps to have included in future criminal statistics all the crimes that come to the knowledge of the police, irrespective of person and place?

Mr. BIRRELL

No crimes known to the police were omitted from the statistics for 1907.

Mr. GINNELL

I would like to ask why is the crime of sodomy not included in the statistics in question?

Mr. BIRRELL

Because there was no allegation of any such crime, and no such crime could possibly be included.

Mr. GINNELL

Is it not a fact that the only practical steps taken by the Irish Government to recover the stolen jewels and to get others in their stead was to shower honours by way of bribes upon a Belfast millionaire?

Mr. BIRRELL

No, Sir.

Mr. GINNELL

I beg to give notice that I will take further action, and ask further questions—

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is not required to give notice of the fact that he is going to ask questions. All that is required is to hand them in.