§ SIR F. BANBURY moved to leave out "may" and insert "shall." The object of his Amendment was to provide that the local authority should see that compensation was paid, not exceeding one-half of the value of the bees or articles or appliances which were destroyed. All previous Acts of Parliament which dealt with the destruction of diseased animals enacted that the compensation should be obligatory. There was a clause to that effect in the Diseases of Animals Act of 1984. In this case compensation would not be more than half. Sections 14, 15, and 16 all contained the same provision, that the compensation should be obligatory. They had been told that the reason it was not made obligatory in this case was that in the Insect Act of last session compensation was permissive. He found the Insect Act referred to the Act of 1877, cap. 268, 977 which dealt with the Colorado beetle. It was true that under that Act compensation was not compulsory on the local authority, except that it was not left in their lands whether or not they should pay, but in those of the Privy Council. The Acts he had cited practically compelled the local authority to pay compensation. The only Act which did not do so was the Act of last session, and that only dealt with insects which came over and destroyed crops. Insects were not kept as an industry as bees were. He was sure the House did not wish that the local authority should have any temptation to be unfair. They should not have the option of saying that one man was deserving and they would give him compensation and refuse it to another because he was not deserving. Having, taken a man's hive and all the paraphernalia of his industry they ought to pay in every case where in the interests of the community they destroyed bees.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 2, line 26, to leave out the word 'may,' and to insert the word 'shall.'"—(Sir F. Banbury.)
§ Question proposed, "That the word 'may' stand part of the clause."
§ *The VICE-PRESIDENT of the DEPARTMENT of AGRICULTURE for IRELAND (Mr. T. W. Russell,) Tyrone, S.said he wished to point out the radical difference between the Diseases of Animals Act and this small measure. In the first case the compensation came out of the rates or out of public money provided by Parliament. In this case it came from a joint fund, part of which was paid by the Department of Agriculture, and part out of a penny rate struck for the purpose of agricultural education. The committee of agriculture in each county was to administer the Act, and as they were engaged in the work of promoting these small industries they naturally took a great interest in these questions, and it would be possible to provide compensation up to a half in at least the great majority of cases, but if they made it compulsory the result would be that the Act would be blocked, and would not be enforced at all. The Bill 978 was founded on a clause of the Act of last session, and there was more analogy between bees and the insects that Act dealt with than between bees and bullocks.
§ MR. CHARLES CRAIG (Antrim, S.)hoped the right hon. Gentle mm would not really oppose the Amendment. If he did he would be causing a great deal of injury possibly to a great number of innocent persons. The section would permit not only infected bees, but perfectly healthy full-blooded bees, in an area arbitrarily declared to be infected, to be destroyed. The fixing of that area was only a precautionary measure, and it was very probable that a large number of bees in the area would not be infected at all. The fixing of the area was only a precautionary measure to prevent the spread of disease, and if bees were arbitrarily seized upon and destroyed, the owners should be assured that they would get compensation, without having to go through the laborious process set out in the Bill. It provided that in the first instance the Department of Agriculture must find that it was just and proper that compensation should be given. But that was not enough. After they had issued their edict that the unfortunate beekeeper was to get possibly one-third of the value of his bees, that had to be corroborated by the local authority, and if they withheld their consent the unfortunate owner, through no fault of his own, got no compensation. Except that it was true that it was rather hard to compare a bee with a bullock, the principle underlying this and the Diseases of Animals Act was precisely the same. In the latter case the compensation was two-thirds of the value, and where an animal was not diseased, but was killed as a precautionary measure to prevent the spread of disease, the full value was paid. If the right hon. Gentleman could not do that the least he could do was to allow compensation to the extent of half the value to be compulsory. To restrict the compensation to a half was in itself a great injustice, but they were willing to waive that point in the hope that at least the compensation should be made compulsory in all cases.
§ MR. CARLILE (Hertfordshire, St. Albans)did not think the Committee realised that this was an important industry in certain parts of Ireland. There were in certain comities as many as 1,200 beekeepers who had appliances of more or less value and novel construction. It was proposed under the clause arbitrarily to take away their property. It was not shown by any means that it would be done when there was a foul brood; it would be done when any sets of hives were alleged to be contaminated, and it was to be done in an arbitrary fashion. The least the right hon. Gentle-
§ man could do under the circumstances was to adopt the Amendment and make the payment of compensation compulsory. No doubt it was true that in many cases the bees would die in any event, but on the other hand there was a large number of cases in which they were probably perfectly sound. He therefore had much pleasure in supporting the Amendment.
§ Question put.
§ The Committee divided:-Ayes, 169; Noes, 34. (Division List No. 197.)
981| AYES. | ||
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Everett, R. Lacey | Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston |
| Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R. | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Marnham. F. J. |
| Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Findlay, Alexander | Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry) |
| Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Fuller, John Michael F. | Middlebrook, William |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Fullerton, Hugh | Mond, A. |
| Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Gill, A. H. | Montagu, Hon. E. S. |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) |
| Barran. Rowland Hirst | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Morrell, Philip |
| Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.) | Gooch, George Peabody(Bath) | Morse, L. L. |
| Beale, W. P. | Gulland, John W. | Murphy. John (Kerry, East) |
| Beck. A. Cecil | Harcourt, Robert. V. (Montrose) | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp'rt | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Nicholls, George |
| Bennett, E. N. | Haworth, Arthur A. | Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncast'r |
| Berridge, T. H. D. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Norton. Capt. Cecil William |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Hedges, A. Paget | O'Brien. Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Black, Arthur W. | Hemmerde, Edward George | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Grady, J. |
| Brigg, John | Henry, Charles S. | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Bright, T. A. | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Brodie, H. C. | Higham, John Sharp | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Brooke, Stopford | Hobart, Sir Robert | Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Hodge, John | Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.) |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Hogan, Michael | Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Byles, William Pollard | Holden, E. Hopkinson | Radfordm, G. H. |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N. | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Causton, Rt Hn. Richard Knight | Horniman, Emslie John | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Rea. Walter Russe'l (Scarboro) |
| Cleland. J. W. | Hudson, Walter | Richards. T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n |
| Clough, William | Islingworth, Perey H. | Richardson, A. |
| Cobbold, Felix Thornley | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Roberts. Charles H. (Lincoin) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Kekewich, Sir George | Roberts. G. H. (Norwich) |
| Collins, Sir Wm. J (S. Pancras, W. | Kettle. Thomas Michael | Robinson. S. |
| Cooper, G. J. | Laidlaw, Robert | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Corbett, C H (Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Lamont, Norman | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
| Cotton, Sir H. J. S. | Law, Hugh A.(Donegal. W.) | Russell, T. W. |
| Craig, Herbert J.(Tynemouth) | Lehmann, R. C. | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Crean, Eugene | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich | Searisbrick, T. T. L. |
| Crooks, William | Levy, Sir Maurice | Schwann. C. Duncan (Hyde) |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co. | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes | Seddon, J. |
| Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Lyell, Charles Henry | Seely, Colonel |
| Devlin. Joseph | Lynch, H. B. | Shackleton, David James |
| Duckworth. James | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Silcock, Thomas Ball |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Macpherson, J, T. | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John |
| Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
| Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) | Soares. Ernest J. |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | M'Crae, Sir George | Stanley, Albert (Staffs. N. W.) |
| Essex, R. W. | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Evans, Sir Samuel T. | Markham, Arthur Basil | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) |
| Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon) | Walsh, Stephen | Whittaker, Rt. Hn Sir Thomas P |
| Summerbell, T. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Sutherland, J. E. | Waterlow, D. S. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe) | Watt, Henry A. | |
| Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton | White, Sir George (Norfolk) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Joseph Pease and Master of Elibank. |
| Tomkinson, James | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) | |
| Toulmin, George | White, Luke (York, E. R.) | |
| Verney, F. W. | Whitley, John Henry (Halifax) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Starkey, John R. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gretton, John | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hunt, Rowland | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
| Bignold, Sir Arthur | Morpeth, Viscount | Valentia, Viscount |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Morrison-Bell, Captain | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Brotherton, Edward Allen | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Carlile, E. Hildred | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Anton Manor) | Renton, Leslie | Younger, George |
| Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Ronaldshay, Earl of | |
| Clark, George Smith | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Frederick Banbury and Mr. Charles Craig. |
| Coates, Maj. E. F. (Lewisham | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D. | |
| Dalrymple, Viscount | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) | |
| Forster, Henry William | Stanier, Beville |
Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House for Monday next.—(Mr. Birrell.)
§ Clause agreed to, and Bill reported without Amendment; As amended, in Committee, considered; read the third time, and passed.