HC Deb 09 December 1908 vol 198 cc461-2
MR. FELL

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if he can give any explanation of the miscalculations made of the number of persons in Ireland over seventy years of age who it was anticipated would become entitled to pensions under the Pensions Act; to what does he attribute the discrepancy; and are the numbers of applications for pensions from Ireland being tested by comparison with the ages in the Census Returns on which presumably the calculations of the numbers were based.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE

The calculations were based on the Registrar General's estimate of total population over seventy, less the estimated number of persons who would not be qualified by reason of their possessing means above the statutory limit or for receipt of poor relief and other causes. The number of claims received indicates both that the estimate of total population over seventy was too low and that the estimate of persons in possession of means in excess of £31 10s. a year was too high. The Answer to the last part of the Question is in the negative, the Census Returns of 1901 not being open to inspection by pension officers.

MR. FLYNN (Cork, N.)

Does not the right hon. Gentleman see that the percentage should be based on the population of seventy years ago rather than upon the present population, in view of the enormous migrations from Ireland, and the great decrease in the population generally?

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE

Yes, I rather agree with my hon. friend. There is something in that. It means that the old people have remained in Ireland while a number of the more vigorous people have left the country.

MR. FELL

Has any information reached the right hon. Gentleman to account for the great discrepancy shown and to show whether the Registrar-General in making up the figures he supplied the right hon. Gentleman with did not take into account the emigration from Ireland?

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE

I am making inquiries into this matter. It is rather premature for me to make, a statement, but the Census Returns were really not accurate. We made inquiries, and the constabulary rather confirmed the impression created by the figures that a great many people understated their ages in the Census papers.