§ MR. MOONEY (Newry)I desire to ask the Postmaster-General a Question of which I have given him private notice, namely, whether he has received a telegram to the effect that when the Royal Mail Steamer "Ulster" was leaving Kingstown the harbour authorities did not provide for the keeping clear of the way out of the harbour, the result being that a collision was only averted by the mail steamer slowing down and altering her course, and whether he will give instructions to the harbour authorities to control the way for the mail steamers in the future as in the past.
§ MR. SYDNEY BUXTONI have not received such information since I left the office. As to the latter part of the Question I should not like to answer it until I know what my powers are.
§ MR. MOONEYHas not the right hon. Gentleman received a telegram to the effect stated?
§ MR. SYDNEY BUXTONIt had not arrived at the office when I left.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYCan the Chief Secretary tell us by whose instructions His Majesty's police interfered with those who were carrying His Majesty's mails, and in favour of another company.
§ MR. BIRRELLI know really nothing about this particular dispute. Happily it does not fall within my province. I heard late last night that a man had been arrested, as I understand, in consequence of obeying his proper officer. I at once telegraphed that if that was so he should be immediately released. I understand that he was 702 never in custody. He was arrested but bail was at once forthcoming. He appeared this morning before the Magistrates and after a protracted hearing, at his own request, I believe, in order that an appeal might be lodged, he was fined 40s., to be reduced to 1s. should no appeal be entered. That is all I know about the matter. The police have to be on Carlisle Pier and always have to be there to maintain order. How far they took part in this dispute I do not know. Nobody has been under arrest.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that a Petition of Right is actually pending in the King's Courts, and, that being so, by what authority the Treasury ordered police to the number of a dozen to appear on the Royal pier at Kingstown, apparently on the side of the view that the Treasury has taken up on this matter?
§ MR. BIRRELLKingstown is a Government harbour, and I do not know that I am prepared to give any further answer. The police are there in sufficient number to prevent any scuffle or undue trouble during this unfortunate business. It is quite true that a Petition of Right has now been filed and the proceedings will be settled in a Court of Justice. I trust that in the meantime there will be no further trouble.
§ MR. CLANCYMay I ask whether the Postmaster-General has any statement to make as to the events which occurred yesterday at Carlisle Pier in reference to this matter and regarding the arrangements that have been made for the London and North Western steamers going to Carlisle pier?
§ MR. SYDNEY BUXTONLast night in consequence of information received from the Harbour Commissioners a telegram was sent by the Post Office urging the Company to comply with the Harbour Master's orders. My position in the matter is this. It is no part of my duty as Postmaster-General to intervene in any dispute between the Harbour Com missioners and the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company. Therefore in this matter I am glad to say that it appears 703 from information received by telegram this morning from an official in Dublin that no delay to the moils has taken place. That may have been, however, before the information received by the hon. Member for Newry.
§ MR. CLANCYI wish to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether it was by the order of the Treasury that the porter of the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company was arrested when he attempted to obey the orders of his captain.
§ MR. RUNCIMANI need hardly say that the Treasury knew absolutely nothing about any intention to arrest or that any arrest took place. The first intimation we had of that was the telegram which the hon. Gentleman was kind enough to show me last night.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYHow much is Ireland being robbed of by this sucessful manœuvre?
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLThe hon. Gentleman says he knows absolutely nothing of what has been occurring at Carlisle Pier: may I ask who is the responsible official controlling the executive action of the police when this occurred, and what subordinate took such high-handed action?
§ MR. BIRRELLI cannot answer the specific question at this moment, but I expect to have information in an hour or two.
§ MR. CLANCYIs it denied or not that the Treasury authorised the steamers of the London and North Western Company to go to Carlisle Pier although at the time a Petition of Right was pending to try the question whether they had a right to go there without permission?
§ MR. RUNCIMANNo, Sir. The arrangement made with the London and North Western Company was made several months ago; the petition was only filed three weeks ago.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYHow much have you gained by the transaction?
§ MR. CLANCYI must press for an answer to my Question. The arrangement was no doubt come to several months ago, but the question is, did the Treasury know that this Petition of Right was to be filed, and whether they will not now suspend the right of the London and North Western steamers to go to the pier in view of the fact that this very question whether they have the right to go there or not is pending in the Courts?
§ MR. RUNCIMANThat is not the information which I have. The City of Dublin Steam Packet Company applied for an interim injunction, and that application was refused. I am not prepared, therefore, to arrive at a different decision from that arrived at by the Courts.
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND (Waterford)Was not the application refused on the ground that the Judge was in a position to fix an almost immediate hearing, and that it was adjourned at the request of the Attorney-General, and, pending the decision of this case, will not the Government suspend the operation of their order whereby the very point at issue is prejudged?
§ MR. RUNCIMANI am afraid my information does not tally with that of the hon. Member. If the hon. Member wants further information he had better put down a question.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Chairman of the London and North Western Railway Company is himself an ex-Treasury official?
§ MR. CLANCYOwing to the unsatisfactory nature of the answers I have received I have to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, viz., "the action of the Government in compelling under threats of force, the removal of the Mail Steamers from the Carlisle Pier, Kingstown, at a time when the trial of a Petition of Right is actually pending in the High Court of Justice in England to try the very question of the legality of such removal."
§ The pleasure of the House having been signified, the Motion stood over, under Standing Order No. 10, until a quarter-past Eight this evening.