§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR (City of London)asked for the ruling of the Chair on a point which, he said, had been long in some doubt and which it would be desirable to clear up, once and for all. It was whether Ways and Means counted as business in Supply.
§ MR. SPEAKERI have no doubt that Committee of Ways and Means, when put down for a purpose, such as that for which it is put down to-day, is business of Supply. But that is not the case when Committee of Ways and Means is taken as the first order, as for the Budget. The day on which that is done could not be counted in the allotted days. When Supply stands first and Committee of Ways and Means is put down for the purpose of moving certain Resolutions, in my opinion it comes within Standing Order 15 and could be taken without invalidating the day as an allotted day.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid he was glad to hear that ruling. He wished to ask the Leader of the House, on the basis of that ruling, whether he proposed to take anything after 12 o'clock except the Resolution in Ways and Means, if the 12 o'clock rule was suspended according to the notice given by the right hon. Gentleman.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINreminded the Prime Minister that in giving notice of his Motion yesterday he stated the suspension would be a pare formality and would be only for the purpose of the Resolution.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid that since giving his notice he had ascertained that it had been ruled on one or two occasions that Committee of Ways and Means might be regarded as part of the business of Supply, and that view was in conformity with the ruling just given from the Chair. That vitiated the reason he gave yesterday for giving notice of a Motion to suspend the 12 o'clock rule, and he could not say any longer that it was merely for the purpose he named. He did hope to get Votes A and 1 to-night.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid he was very unwilling to press the doctrine of the 1437 honourable understanding, but he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would bear in mind that the belief obtained in the House that the suspension was for taking only a purely formal stage. He would ask whether the right hon. Gentleman could not make it one of the instructions to the Committee now dealing with the question of procedure to consider, with a view to its abolition, this particular stage which made a Resolution in Ways and Means necessary on which to found the Consolidated Fund Bill. He spoke, he said, on this subject with the more freedom as he was now in opposition and likely to remain so; therefore it could not be suggested he had other motives behind. He thought the stage was a survival which ought to be abolished. He desired further to ask what business would be taken next week.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANsaid he had no doubt that the question was well within the scope of the Committee's inquiry, and no doubt it would come under consideration. He had been pressed not to go beyond 12 o'clock, and as he had put down his notice for the suspension of the rule on a somewhat wrong ground, he would not insist on going beyond 12 o'clock. The business on Monday would be, if Votes A and I of the Army Estimates were obtained tonight, Report of the Navy and Army Votes, Ways and Means Report, and the First Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill, On Tuesday certain Bills would be introduced, including the Merchant Shipping Bill. On Wednesday the Second Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill would be taken, and on Thursday he should endeavour to get the Speaker out of the Chair on the Civil Service Estimates.
§ MR. ARNOLD-FORSTERpointed out that very important changes of policy had been adumbrated in the statement of the Secretary for War, and unless they could take a general discussion on this Vote they would not be able to debate these questions of policy until the end of the session.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANGeneral discussions on Army matters are sometimes taken on other Votes by arrangement.
§ MR. WYNDHAM (Dover)Is it not the case that general discussions on Army policy can only be raised on the Vote for the salary of the Secretary for War?
§ MR. SPEAKERArrangements have very often been made with the consent of the Chair to continue the general discussion which takes place on Vote A on some subsequent Vote.