§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)I have to ask the right hon. Gentleman, with regard to 1414 the business for next week, and as part of that, what day he will allocate for the debate on the Motion standing in the name of my right hon. friend the Member for Berwick.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI propose to go on with the Budget on Monday, and the arrangements after that must in part depend upon the right hon. Gentleman himself. I am very anxious to give him the day for which he has asked; but, as he will remember, I made an appeal to him when he first made his proposal, to which appeal he has, I think, so far not seen his way to make any response. I think he will himself agree with me that I am in some difficulty. The substance of what occurred was this. The very subject of the vote of censure was brought up at the right hon. Gentleman's instance on a Motion for the adjournment; he was listened to with profound attention and respect by this side of the House [Cries of "So would you have been"]; he was followed by a Member of the Government who was not allowed to finish, I think, one sentence so that he could be heard; and during the whole of that time the interruptions from that side of the House were not protested against by the right hon. Gentleman. Now I do not wish to go back on an old sore, but let it be remembered that the right hon. Gentleman proposes that we should discuss the same subject; and I propose to put up the same speakers more or less in the same order. That is to say, I shall probably ask my right hon. friend the Secretary for the Colonies to speak early in the debate, and I shall certainly reserve myself for some later stage of the proceedings. Now, I think the right hon. Gentleman will feel that I am bound, not only to my right hon. friend but to the House, to see that, so far as. I am concerned, the scene which disgraced us in the eyes of the world—
§ *MR. JOHN ELLIS (Nottinghamshire' Rushcliffe)It was a disgrace to you primarily.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR (resuming)does not recur; and that there is some danger of its recurring, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, is 1415 quite evident from the noisy and disorderly interruption of the hon. Gentleman who was quite unable to control himself on the previous occasion. In these circumstances my appeal is simply to the right hon. Gentleman to do his best to prevent a recurrence of such an outrage upon decency and fair play.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANI am greatly surprised that the right hon. Gentleman should have renewed to- day the condition or stipulation which he mentioned two days ago, and which at the time I did not regard as of a serious character at all. I cannot imagine that the right hon. Gentleman's appeal is a serious appeal; in the first place, because the right hon. Gentleman is aware that the Chair alone can maintain and enforce order in this House, and if I were to give—which it never entered into my mind to do—the undertaking he asks for, I should be so far usurping the authority of the Chair; in the second place, because the right hon. Gentleman must also be aware that if there was any disorder on Monday [Cries of "If!"]—well, so far as there was any disorder on Monday, it was occasioned by the fact that the right hon. Gentleman departed from the invariable practice when the personal conduct either of a Minister or a Member is directly impugned, and did not himself rise to meet the charges against him. The right hon. Gentleman is aware that there was no discourtesy intended or felt towards the Colonial Secretary; but the House, or a large number of Members of the House, having experienced for weeks and months past the greatest difficulty in ascertaining from the right hon. Gentleman his view of his own opinions, and finding that he, when confronted by a statement made by me in very plain and unaggressive terms showing as we thought, as I thought, and as I still think, at all events a prima facie case of a breach of faith on his part, did not rise immediately to explain the circumstances—that was the cause of the disorder, that, Sir, and that alone. And if similar circumstances arose again, I think it is only natural to suppose that a similar expression of feeling would be given. There has never been any desire here on the part of any of my friends to disturb the ordinary business of the House unless 1416 on such an occasion as this when the ordinary practice was flagrantly departed from. I cannot give the undertaking he asks for.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI am sorry the right hon. Gentleman, by the observations he has just made, has laid it down that it is not discourteous to an hon. or right hon. Gentleman to keep him standing fifty minutes without allowing him to speak. He has also laid it down that the provocation given was sufficient to justify that procedure. That is a doctrine which goes to the very root of Parliamentary business. The right hon. Gentleman, to my intense surprise, has defended his friends by saying that I was violating a rule of the House by not rising at once, and by waiting until the whole attack which was in contemplation by hon. Gentlemen opposite had developed, and until the person accused had heard all the accusations that were made against him. That also is a new doctrine to which I absolutely refuse to subscribe. The right hon. Gentleman has told his friends that they would be justified in pursuing the same course if the same situation were to arise. Well, but the same situation will arise. Whatever attacks may be made upon me in the earlier stages of the debate for which the right hon. Gentleman has asked, and which I am anxious to give, whatever the charges made against me may be, I do not propose to rise early in that debate, any more than I proposed to rise early in the debate the other night. In those circumstances the right hon. Gentleman, having given fair warning—
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANAs perhaps the decision of the right hon. Gentleman is hanging in the balance, I wish to explain that I do not conceive this Motion of my right hon. friend's to be at all of the same character as the proceedings of last Monday. This is a Motion dealing with the whole question of the Colonial Conference and the policy to be submitted to it. Therefore it is a perfectly reasonable thing that the Government should put up such Members as they think fit, and it will be no ground for disorder. But on Monday night last there was a direct challenge of 1417 the honourable conduct of the right hon. Gentleman, and I never before knew a Member of Parliament, either an ordinary Member, if I may be allowed to use the term, or a Front Bench Member, still less a high official of the Crown, who refused or appeared to evade replying. [Cries of "Withdraw."] The Chancellor of the Exchequer appears to lose his temper entirely the moment any question of this sort arisen. The ground taken on Monday last was that the attack was a personal one, to which the right hon. Gentleman alone could give a reply. That would not be the case at all on the occasion of the Motion which it is proposed to bring forward on Monday, or whatever day may be fixed.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI think the interruption of the right hon. Gentleman, which has attained such proportions that perhaps it might be thought to be an independent and self-supporting speech, is really deplorable. A right hon. Gentleman who leads the Opposition, and some day may well lead the House, puts forward a proposition which I think absolutely ruinous to our proceedings. I have been the subject of as much direct personal and individual attack as any man in this House, probably of more than any man in this House. That is so owing, among other things, to the circumstance that I was Irish Secretary at a time when feeling ran very high in Ireland, and naturally enough the Irish Government and the Minister responsibly identified with the Irish Government—especially identified with it—was subject to almost nightly attack. Never have I heard it laid down that I was bound to reply at once, although more important speeches might come, or there might be reason to think more important speeches might come, at a later stage of the proceedings. That is not all. The right hon. Gentleman appears to think there is no personal element in this vote of censure. He is quite wrong. This Resolution states precisely what was stated and put by you, Sir, from the Chair as a matter of urgent public importance, namely, the alleged conflicting utterances of the Prime Minister [OPPOSITION cries of "Ministers"], and if the contention of the right hon. Gentleman 1418 be accepted it appears to me that I should be expected to rise first on whatever day was selected, as I was expected to rise on Monday. I repudiate the doctrine absolutely, and nothing will induce me to depart from that position in any way. It is in the first place a gross violation of Parliamentary procedure to lay down that that is the rule; and if it were the rule, the sanction which it has received from hon. Gentlemen opposite is of a kind which should really receive the severest condemnation from the Leader of the Opposition if he desires, as I am sure he does desire, to see that our debates in this House are conducted fairly and decently. I should like to know whether I may gather from the right hon. Gentleman, who presumably does know the mind of his followers, whether we are to receive a fair hearing or not.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN rose again, but could not secure a hearing.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURIf he will inform me that to the best of his ability, and so far as his knowledge extends—[Cries of "Oh"]. I withdraw the term "to the best of his ability," because he has repudiated any influence in this matter with his friends. If he will tell me that to the best of his knowledge the debate will be fairly conducted on Tuesday, supposing Tuesday to be the day, or on any other day which is selected, I shall be glad to find an opportunity for the right hon. Gentleman; otherwise I cannot.
§ MR. CHURCHILLWill you do the same?
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANWe had better know how we stand. Is Tuesday to be given for this purpose?
§ SIR GEORGE BARTLEY (Islington, N)Are you going to give the pledge? [OPPOSITION cries of "No, no!"]
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANThere is no reason that I can see why 1419 anything should lead any Member to depart from the ordinary course of debate, if the right hon. Gentleman does not provoke it by departing from it himself.
§ MR. CHURCHILLasked whether the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury would himself use his influence with his own followers to procure a hearing for Members speaking from the Opposition side of the House upon points of order or other matters in the course of the debate.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI understand that, though in somewhat grudging and stumbling language, the right hon. Gentleman has given the pledge. In that case I shall be quite ready to give Tuesday next.
§ MR. CHURCHILLrose again.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKERA decision has been come to, and it seems undesirable to prolong this discussion.
§ MR. CHURCHILLOn a point of order, you have allowed me, Sir, to put the Question to the right hon. Gentleman. May I not ask him whether he will endeavour to secure a fair hearing?