§ MR. JOHN REDMOND (Waterford)I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in view of Rule 4 of the Commissioners of National Education in Ireland, which states that the Commissioners do not change any fundamental rule without the express permission of the Lord-Lieutenant, the Commissioners have sought for the express permission of the Lord-Lieutenant to change the rule relating to the payment of special fees for extra subjects so that, in future, no fees are to be allowed for Irish for pupils under Fourth Standard, and Irish is not to be allowed to be taught as an extra subject outside school hours by the ordinary teachers in schools which do not show merit; and whether, in view 465 of the expression of opinion on this matter in this House twelve months ago, and the promises made by the Chief Secretary, the express permission of the Lord-Lieutenant to change this rule has been granted; and whether, in deference to Irish opinion, steps will be taken to have these restrictions on the teaching of Irish as an extra subject removed.
§ MR. WALTER LONGThe hon. and learned Gentleman is correct in stating that the Commissioners are precluded from changing any fundamental rule without the express permission of the Lord-Lieutenant. But the rule, No. 123, under which fees for Irish as an extra subject outside school hours are paid, is not a fundamental rule. My right hon. friend the Member for Dover undertook to communicate with the Commissioners with a view to the removal of some doubts created by the Circular of January, 1904, and as result of this communication a further Circular was issued in March. The terms of the latter were outlined by my right hon. friend on March 15th. I cannot give any undertaking that the conditions prescribed by this Circular, and which appear to me to be perfectly reasonable, will be withdrawn. They do not exclude children from obtaining instruction in Irish, nor do they impose undue restrictions on its teaching. It must be borne in mind that these Circulars do not in any way interfere with the teaching of Irish in national schools during school hours, for which, however, no special fee is payable. Irish may be taught during school hours to every pupil in every national school, provided the adequacy of the course of instruction in the ordinary curriculum is not thereby impaired or hampered. Correspondence has passed and is still proceeding between the Commissioners, the Irish Government, and the Treasury with respect to the adoption for a limited period of a modified scale of fees for Irish, instead of the existing fee of 10s. per pupil. In connection with this matter, I must point out that when the rule under which payments for Irish and other extra subjects was sanctioned in 1901, it was on the express understanding that the total payments for extras, including Irish, 466 French, Latin, Arithmetic, and Geometry, would not exceed £2,000 per annum. It appears, however, that in 1904 no less a sum than —12,069 was expended in payments for the teaching of Irish alone. This is a matter which requires and will receive the serious consideration of Government.