HC Deb 01 August 1905 vol 150 cc1287-304

Order for Second Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

MR. FLYNN (Cork, N.)

said that the extraordinary disadvantage of continuing business at this hour (12.15) was that a large majority of the Members of the House were not in a fit frame of mind to carry on discussion. It might easily happen that important Bills would slip through, not because they were innocuous, but because the titles could not be heard when read by the clerk. He had not heard the title when it was first read and he thought it desirable that the senior clerk should endeavour to develop more distinct enunciation of the various important proposals that came before the House.

MR. SPEAKER

I must ask the hon. Member to address himself to the Bill before the House.

MR. FLYNN

said he was endeavouring to explain, but for the hubbub of hon. Gentlemen opposite, that this was an Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. [MINISTERIAL ironical laughter]. Hon. Gentleman opposite would have cheered much more heartily if it had been an Expiring Government Continuance Bill, and they would have come down with a much bigger majority to vote for the Second Reading. He objected to this Bill on principle and on its details. It embodied one of the very worst principles connected with the legislation of this country. It took up certain Acts, and certain clauses of other Acts. It did not differentiate as to how far an Act was good or bad, or as to whether it was required or not They were merely scheduled—whether it were an Act to prevent Irishmen from carrying arms in their own country, or to encourage jury-packing in Ireland; or a Bill to provide for the continuance of the Government of the day. The viciousness of a Bill of this kind was that it lumped together a number of Bills connected with principles which were vital, and it was carried without, discussion. Of course, in a Bill of this kind one was deprived, from the very nature of the case, from going into the schedules. Why should Parliament meet year after year, and session after session, and adopt a hotch-potch system like this? It was an inartistic system. It simply enabled the Government to drag on its existence from month to month, and when they did not know what they were going to do to reform these old laws, they put them into the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. [MINISTERIAL ironical cheers.] He would remind hon. Gentlemen opposite that they did not know the first principles of the British Constitution. They had come there that night for another purpose than to discuss the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. His point was that such a Bill ought not to be necessary. It was an anachronism and it was a scandal to continue these old Acts in this slap-dash fashion—Acts like the Peace Preservation Act, and the Sunday Closing Act. [MINISTERIAL ironical cheers.] Hon. Gentlemen laughed, but they held the liberties of Ireland in their hands. It would be far more manly and honest for the Government to come forward and face the House of Commons and discuss each one of these Acts.

MR. CHURCHILL (Oldham)

said that the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had stated a number of objections, many of them of a very serious character, to the class of legislation represented by this Bill, and against the methods of dealing with them. It would be in the recollection of hon. Gentlemen that at the end of last session he had an opportunity of moving an Amendment which enabled the House to express its opinion on the kind of objection represented by the hon. Gentleman's Amendment. He then moved— That, in the opinion of this House, it is inexpedient that when important Acts of Parliament have been passed for a limited period, any of such Acts should be included in a general Hill for the continuation of expiring laws brought in at the close of the session without affording any fair opportunity of considering the propriety of its discontinuance or modification. That was the Amendment which he begged now formally to submit to the House in order to enable it to come to a decision on the question at issue. It was framed in accordance with precedent; and it followed almost exactly the phraseology of the Amendment moved many years ago by the late Mr. Butt.

Any hon. Member or right hon. Gentleman who ran his eyes over the list of thirty-five Ants in the schedule could not fail to see how very varied and important the subjects dealt with were. The object of putting them in the schedule was to enable the House on the Committee stage of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill to discuss and examine them. They were not placed permanently upon the Statute-book in order that the House might, under the form of this Act, have an opportunity of reviewing and revising them year by year; but all the advantage of that inconvenient method of legislation would be destroyed if they were to allow the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill to become a mere matter of form. It was not only not a mere matter of form, but it was intended to bring the whole of the legislation which they desired to renew year by year definitely before Parliament in order that Parliament might express its opinion upon it in detail. It was no partisan assertion that he made, because the House would remember that the Vaccination Act was specially placed in the schedule of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill in order that it might be discussed from time to time when questions about its administration arose. He ventured to renew the general objection he made last year of throwing thirty-five Acts, some good, some bad, s me indifferent, some important, and some insignificant, into one single measure, and then trying to pass that measure through the House as though, forsooth, it was a matter of small importance. He followed a great and important example in criticising the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. The late Lord Salisbury expressed very strong opinions indeed against that method of legislation. Mr. Disraeli, a Constitutionalist even superior to the late Mr. Butt, also attacked the method, and the present Prime Minister, whose respect for constitutional forms was so well known, had on several occasions commented severely upon it. It was not necessary for him to state at any greater length the reasons which actuated him in moving the Amendment, and he would content himself with formally moving.

MAJOR SEELY (Isle of Wight)

seconded. He said he really considered this method of prolonging Acts of Parliament without discussion was one which should not pass without protest; and he thought be could show that there was at least something in the contention that had been raised. There were some matters in the Bill of very little importance, but there were others of the greatest importance which had been purposely made annual Acts because it was intended that they should be debated year by year. There was one such Act which affected the defences of the country, viz., the Suspension of the Militia Ballot Act.

When that Act was passed, it was the obvious intention that the House should review in each year the reasons why it should not continue that method of ensuring the due defence of the country. For his part, if he were asked whether it was wise to suspend the Militia Ballot Act, he should say it was wise under ordinary circumstances but that it was not wise this year, when the whole defences of the country had be thrown into the melting-pot, to suspend this Act without obtaining some assurances from the Government as to the Auxiliary Force.

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is not entitled to discuss the separate Acts in the Bill; he must wait until the schedule is reached.

MAJOR SEELY,

continuing, said that there were many Acts which were specifically intended to be the subject of discussion every year; otherwise they would not have been made annual. And if that was so, it was not only proper, but their duty to discuss them before they were re-enacted, and he hoped an opportunity would be given for the fullest discussion of them when the Committee stage was reached.

Amendment proposed— To leave out all the words after the word 'That.' and aid the words 'in the opinion of this House, it is inexpedient that when important Acts of Parliament have been passed for a limited period any of such Acts should be include in a general Bill for the Continuance of f Expiring Laws brought in at the close of the session without affording any fair opportunity of considering the propriety of their discontinuance or of their modification."—(Mr. Churchill.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)

said the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill and every Bill of the kind passed for the last thirty-one years were a violation of a solemn pledge given on July 25th, 1874, by the Government of that day. An Amendment, almost on the same lines as that proposed by the junior Member for Oldham, was then proposed by Mr. Butt and was accepted by the Government, and he recollected Mr. Butt then saying that henceforth, over every Act which was intended for a limited time there would be full powers of discussion and amendment. He had the solemn pledge of the Tory Government of that day, and pledges then given by the Treasury Bench had some force and solidarity. This Amendment was based upon observations made by Lord Salisbury and Lord Carnarvon in 1873, when they appealed against the gross impropriety of the system of re-enacting legislation in an omnibus Bill. In 1874 there was I a full discussion of the various Acts in the schedule, and Mr. Disraeli distinctly stated that two particular Acts I should no longer be contained in a Continuance Bill, and that if their continuance were required separate Bills should be brought in early in the session when there would be an opportunity for discussion. Thirty-one years had elapsed, and yet one of the Acts mentioned by Mr. Disraeli was included in the schedule of the present Bill. After that, what was to be thought of the pledges of any Government? Then, too, the Bill embodied the vicious principle of legislation by reference, which made it impossible for any ordinarily intelligent man to be sure of his ground in dealing with its provisions. Because the Bill embodied statutes which were bulwarks of the Constitution, such as the Ballot Act, which ought to be made permanent, and statutes contrary to the principles of the Constitution which ought to be repealed, and because the measure was a standing monument of the violation of a solemn pledge which Irish Members were foolish enough to accept, he should support the Amendment.

Mr. WHITLEY (Halifax)

said that last year when this Bill was under discussion in Committee it was shown that many of the statutes included in the schedule were hopelessly out of date, and it was suggested that the time had come when a small Committee should be appointed to revise the schedule of the Bill. He was not sure that a pledge was not given in that direction, but at any rate the case was largely admitted. He hoped that the Prime Minister would give an. assurance that if he occupied his present position at the beginning of anew session he would give his consideration to that suggestion.

MR. T. M. HEALY (Louth, N.)

referred to the inclusion of the Arms Act in the Bill, and pointed out that in Ireland the Wild Birds Protection Act was in perpetual force there because the Irish people could carry no arms for sporting purposes. The seagull in Ireland had become a land bird. He had seen the gulls come many miles inland year by year, with the result that the crops of the farmer suffered seriously and the young fish in the rivers were disappearing. It was time the Government seriously considered the question with a view, at any rate, to farmers being allowed to use sporting weapons for their own defence.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)

appealed to the House to come to a decision. He did not withdraw from what he had previously Said on this subject. Every Government during thirty-one years had felt that whatever might be the objections in dealing with Acts in this particular way, the impossibility of rejecting this Bill on the Second Reading stage was overwhelming. It would throw the whole country into confusion. Whether a Committee would be able to find a remedy he could not say, but to revise the Bill in the manner suggested by the hon. Member for Halifax would be the business of a session, because, of course, the decision of the Committee upon each individual Act would have to be reviewed by the House. He could not pledge himself to appoint a Committee in another session, though he admitted that the subject might be worthy of consideration.

MR. MACVEAGH (Down, S.)

said the House had heard the customary speech from the Prime Minister on this Bill. Last year the right hon. Gentleman appealed to the House to tolerate the system for one year more.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I never said that.

MR. MACVEAGH

I am quoting from Hansard.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

If the hon. Member means that I said the system would come to an end in a year he is in error.

MR. MACVEAGH

said he distinctly remembered the right hon. Gentleman asking the House to tolerate the system for one year more. They had tolerated the system for another year, and they were now entitled to enter an emphatic protest against its continuance. The fact that a foolish thing had been done for twenty years was no reason for its further repetition. A large body of opinion in the House had always protested against this method of legislation. That this was a crude and ill-considered Rill was shown by the fact that it embodied many antiquated and obsolete Acts. It was time some steps were taken to separate the wheat from the chaff, and to make permanent those laws which should be permanent, and repeal those which had become obsolete. Nobody would suggest the repeal of the Ballot Act or the Corrupt Practices Act, and it was absurd that the House should be asked every year to re-enact those measures instead of their being made permanent. Sir Stafford Northcote, Mr. Disraeli, the late Lord Salisbury, and many others, had declared that the system should be carefully considered, and brought within stricter limits, while in 1874 Mr. Disraeli distinctly premised that two Acts, one of which was the Arms Act, should no longer be included in the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill, and that if its continuance was necessary a separate Bill would be introduced. Not the slightest effort had been made to give effect to those pledges, and the Arms Act still appeared in the schedule. To show the absurdity of the inclusion of some of the Acts he might mention the Sand Grouse Act. He was not an authority on grouse, but he was informed that there were no sand grouse in the country; why, then, should the House be asked to re-enact that measure? Another Act was one dealing with the Irish linen trade. It was seventy-one years old, and there was not a single clause in it to which any member of the linen trade paid the slightest attention. The time had come when the House should take a firm stand and insist on the fulfilment of the pledges which had been given. Nationalist Members would continue to oppose with the utmost energy the passing of this Bill so-long as it included the re-enactment of the Arms Act against which they had never ceased to protest, and which was administered all over Ireland in a scandalous and partisan manner.

MR. JOHN O'CONNOR (Kildare, N.)

joined in the protest against the method of legislation embodied in this Bill. After an absence of some years from Parliament he had noticed many changes in the House, in its procedure, and in its personnel; only one thing seemed unchangeable, and that was the Expiring. Laws Continuance Bill. Governments might come and Governments might go, but the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill went on for ever. If there was one thing, more than another which he had heard inveighed against by Judges on the Bench and all who had to deal with the administration of the law it was legislation by reference. If there was anything worse than legislation by reference it was legislation by an Expiring Laws Continuance Bill. If Acts were good they should be made permanent; if they were bad they should be removed from the Statute-book. To take only one instance, Members probably did not know that the Sunday Closing Act was a partial Bill applying only to certain parts of Ireland. If it was a good Bill it should be applied to the other parts, and if it was bad it should be removed from the Statute-book. He protested against the method of legislation which was exemplified by the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill.

MR. FLAVIN (Kerry, N.)

rose to continue the debate.

Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The House divided:—Ayes, 206; Noes, 162. (Division List No. 320.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Forster, Henry William Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Foster, Philip S. (Warwick, S. W. Morgan, David J(Walthamstow
Anson, Sir William Reynell Galloway, William Johnson Morpeth, Viscount
Arkwright, John Stanhope Gardner, Ernest Morrell, George Herbert
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Morrison, James Archibald
Arrol, Sir William Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Mount, William Arthur
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Gordon, Maj-Evans(T'rH'mlets Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Aubrey-Fletcher. Rt. Hn. Sir H. Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Myers, William Henry
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Nicholson, William Graham
Bailey, James (Walworth) Greene, Sir EW(B'rySEd'm'nds O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Baird, John George Alexander Greene, HenryD. (Shrewsbury) Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Balcarres, Lord Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Parkes, Ebenezer
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Grenfell, William Henry Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Gretton, John Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Balfour, RtHn Gerald W. (Leeds Groves, James Grimble Percy, Earl
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Hall, Edward Marshall Pierpoint, Robert
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Banner, John S. Harmood- Hamilton, RtHn LordG(Midd'x Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Hamilton, Marq. of(L'nd'nderry Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Hare, Thomas Leigh Pretyman, Ernest George
Bigwood, James Harris, F. Leverton(Tynem'th) Pryce Jones, Lt. -Col. Edward
Bingham, Lord Hay, Hon. Claude George Purvis, Robert
Blundell, Colonel Henry Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Pym, C. Guy
Brassey, Albert Heath, Sir James(Staffords. NW Randles, John S.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Rankin, Sir James
Brymer, William Ernest Hill, Henry Staveley Ratcliff, R. F.
Butcher, John George Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside Reed, Sir Edw. James(Cardiff)
Campbell, J.H.M. (Dublin Univ Hoult, Joseph Reid, James (Greenock)
Carlile, William Walter Howard, John (Kent, Faversh'm Renwick, George
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Ridley, S. Forde
Cautley, Henry Strother Hudson, George Bickersteth Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Cavendish. V. C. W. (Derbyshire Hunt, Rowland Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Chamberlain, Rt HnJ. A. (Wore. Jameson, Major J. Eustace Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Round, Rt. Hon. James
Chapman, Edward Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Royds, Clement Molyneux
Clive, Captain Percy A. Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Coates, Edward Feetham Kerr, John Sackville, Col. S. G. (Stopford-
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Keswick, William Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Coghill, Douglas Harry Kimber, Sir Henry Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Compton, Lord Alwyne Knowles, Sir Lees Seton-Karr, Sir Henry
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Sharpe, William Edward T.
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Shaw-Stewart, SirH. (Renfrew)
Dalkeith, Earl of Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Lawson, JohnGrant (Yorks, NR Skewes-Cox, Sir Thomas
Davenport, William Bromley- Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chatham Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Smith, HC(North'um. Tyneside
Dickson, Charles Scott Leveson-Gower, FrederickN. S Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. Llewellyn, Evan Henry Spear, John Ward
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lockwood, Lieut-Col. A. R. Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Dorington, RtHn. Sir John E. Long, Col. CharlesW. (Evesham Stanley, Rt, Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Doughty, Sir George Long. Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S) Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Douglas, Rt, Hon. A. Akers- Lowe, Francis William Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Duke, Henry Edward Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stroyan John
Dyke Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lucas, Raginald J. (Portsmouth Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ
Faber Edmund B. (Hants). W. Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Thornton, Percy M.
Fellowes Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edwd. Macdona, John Cumming Tollemache, Henry James
Fergusson, Rt, Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r Maconochie, A. W. Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Tuff, Charles
Finch Rt Hon George H. Marks, Harry Hananel Turnour, Viscount
Finlay Rt HnSirR. B. (Inv'rn'ss Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Fisher, William Hayes Maxwell, W. J. H(Dumfriesshire Warde, Colonel C. E.
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Mildmay, Francis Bingham Welby, Lt. -Col. A.C.E.(Taunton
Flower, Sir Ernest Milvain, Thomas Welby, Sir Charles GE. (Notts
Whiteley, H. (Ashton und.Lyne Wodehouse, Rt.Hn.E.R.(Bath) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood, and Viscount Valentia.
Whitmore, Charles Algernon Wortley, Rt.Hon. C.B.Stuart-
Willoughby de Eresby, Lord Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Wilson, John (Glasgow) Wylie, Alexander
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N E) Healy, Timothy Michael O'Malley, William
Ainsworth, John Stirling Helme, Norval Watson O'Mara, James
Allen, Charles P Henderson, Arthur (Durham) O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Ambrose, Robert Higham, John Sharp O'Shee, James John
Baker, Joseph Allen Holland, Sir William Henry Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Barran, Rowland Hirst Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Pirie, Duncan V.
Barry, E. (Cork, S) Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Power, Patrick Joseph
Black, Alexander William Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea Priestley, Arthur
Poland, John Jones, Leif (Appleby) Reckitt, Harold James
Bright, Allan Heywood Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Reddy, M.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Jordan, Jeremiah Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burke, E Haviland Kearley, Hudson E. Reid, Sir R. Threshie(Dumfries
Buxton, Sydney Charles(Poplar Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W Richards, Thomas
Caldwell, James Kilbride, Denis Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Lamont, Norman Roche, John (Galway East)
Causton, Richard Knight Langley, Batty Roe, sir Thomas
Channing, Francis Allston Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Rose, Charles Day
Cheetham, John Frederick Lawson, Sir Wilfred (Cornwall) Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Clancy, John Joseph Layland-Barratt, Francis Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cogan, Denis J. Leese, Sir JosephF. (Accrington Shackleton, David James
Condon, Thomas Joseph Leigh, Sir Joseph Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Crean, Eugene Levy, Maurice Sheehy David
Cremer, William Randal Lough, Thomas Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crombie, John William Lundon, W. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Crooks, William Lyell, Charles Henry Slack, Jonn Bamford
Cullman, J MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Delany, William MacVeagh, Jeremiah Soares Ernest J
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Spencer, RtHnC. R. (Northants)
Dobbie, Joseph M'Fadden, Edward Sullivan, Donal
Donelan, Captain A. M'Hugh, Patrick A. Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Doogan, P. C. M'Kean, John Tennant, Harold John
Duncan, J. Hastings M'Kenna, Reginald Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Edwards, Frank M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Thompson, Dr. EC(Monagh'n, N
Edbank, Master of Mansfield, Horace Rendall Tomkinson James
Ellice, Capt. EC(S. Andrw'sBghs Mooney, John J. Toulmin George
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Trevelyan Charles Philip
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Moss, Samuel Villiers, Finest Amherst
Eve, Harry Irelawney Muldoon, John Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Farrell, James Patrick Murnaghan, George Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Fenwick Charles Murphy, John Weir, James Galloway
Ffranch, Peter Nannetti, Joseph P. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Field. Williiam Nolan, Col. JohnP(GaIway, N.) White, Patrick Meath, North)
Findlay, Alexander (Lanark,NE Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Nussey, Thomas Willans Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Gilhooly, James O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John O'Connor. James (Wicklow, W. Wilson John (Durham, Mid.)
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Woodhouse, Sir J T. (Huddersf'd
Hammond, John O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) Young Samuel
Harcourt, Lewis O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Hardie, J. Keir(Merthyr Tydvil) O'Dowd, John TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Churchill and Major seely
Hayden, John Patrick O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir ArthurD. O'Kelly. James (Roscommon, N

Question put accordingly, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question"

The House divided:—Ayes, 206; Noes, 161. (Division List No. 321.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Arkwright, John Stanhope Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Arnold-Forster,Rt.Hn.Hugh O Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt.Hn. Sir H.
Anson, Sir William Reynell Arrol, Sir William Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy
Bailey, James (Walworth) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Parkes, Ebenezer
Baird, John George Alexander Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Pease, HerbertPike(Darlingcon
Balcarres, Lord Grenfell, William Henry Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Welloslev
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J.(Manch'r Gretton, John Percy, Earl
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Groves, James Grimble Pierpoint, Robert
Balfour, RtHn Gerald W. (Leeds Hall, Edward Marshall Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christen. Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Hamilton, RtHnLordG. (Middx Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Banner, John S. Harmood Hamilton, Marq. of(L'nd'nd'rry Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford Pretyman, Ernest George
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Hare, Thomas Leigh Pryce-Jones, Lt. -Col. Edward
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Harris, F. Leverton(Tynem'th) Purvis, Robert
Bigwood, James Hay, Hon. Claude George Pym, C. Guy
Bingham, Lord Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Randies, John S.
Blundell, Colonel Henry Heath, Sir James (Staffords. NW Rankin, Sir James
Brassey, Albert Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Ratcliff, R. F.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. Sir John Hill, Henry Staveley Reed, Sir Edw. James (Cardiff)
Brymer, William Ernest Hope, J. F(Sheffield, Brightside Reid, James (Greenock)
Butcher, John George Hoult, Joseph Renwick, George
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ. Howard, John(Kent Faversham Ridley, S. Forde
Carlile, William Walter Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomsoi
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Hudson, George Bickersteth Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield
Cautley, Henry Strother Hunt, Rowland Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Hutton, John (Yorks., N. R. Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Jameson, Major J. Eustace Round, Rt. Hon. James
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Worc. Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. ArthurFred. Royds, Clement Molyneux
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpoo')
Chapman, Edward Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Clive, Captain Percy A. Kerr, John Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Coates, Edward Feetham Keswick, William Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Kimber, Sir Henry Seton-Karr, Sir Henry
Coghill, Douglas Harry Knowles, Sir Lees Sharpe, William Edward T
Compton, Lord Alwyne Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Shaw-Stewart, Sir H. (Renfrew)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Sinclair, Louis (Romford
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) Skewes-Cox, Sir Thomas
Dalkeith, Earl of Lawson, John Grant(Yorks, N. R Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Lee, ArthurH. (Hants. Fareham) Smith, HC (North'mb. Tyneside
Davenport, William Bromley- Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Davies, Sir HoratioD. (Chatham Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. Spear John Ward
Dickson Charles Scott Llewellyn, Evan Henry Stanley, Hn. Arthuur (Ormskirk
Dimsdale, Rt. Hon. Sir JosephC. Lockwood, Lieut. -Col. A. R. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lanes.)
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Long, Col. CharlesW. (Evesham Stewart, Sir MarkJ. M'Taggart
Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir JohnE. Long Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol, S. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Doughty, Sir George Lowe, Francis William Stroyan, John
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Loyd, Archie Kirkman Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester
Duke, Henry Edward Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxfd Univ
Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir William Hart Lucas, ReginaldJ. (Portsmouth) Thornton, Percy M.
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Tollemacne, Henry James
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Macdona, John Cumming Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Fellowes, Rt Hn. Ailwyn Edward Maconochie, A. W. Tuff, Charles
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. SirJ. (Manc'r M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire Turnour, Viscount
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Marks Harry Hananel Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Warde, Col. C. E.
Finlay, RtHnSirRB. (Inv'rn'ss. Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriesshire Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.)
Fisher, William Hayes Mildmay, Francis Bingham Whiteley, H. (Ashtonund. Lyne
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Milvain, Thomas Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Flower, Sir Ernest Molesworth, Sir Lewis Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Forster, Henry William Morgan, David J(Walthamstow Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Foster, PhilipS. (Warwick, S. W. Morpeth, Viscount Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Galloway, William Johnson Morrell, George Herbert Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Gardner, Ernest Morrison, James Archibald Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Mount, William Arthur Wylie, Alexander
Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Murray, Charles J. (Coventry
Gordon, Maj Evans-(T'rH'ml'ts Myers, William Henry TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Nicholson, William Graham
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Greene, SirE. W. (B'rySEdm'nds Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Helme, Norval Watson O'Mara, James
Ainsworth, John Stirling Henderson, Arthur (Durham) O'Shaughnessy, P. J
Allen, Charles P. Higham, John Sharp O'Shee, James John
Ambrose, Robert Holland. Sir William Henry Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Baker, Joseph Allen Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Pirie, Duncan V.
Barran, Rowland Hirst Hutchinson. Dr. Charles Fredk. Power, Patrick Joseph
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea Priestley, Arthur
Black, Alexander William Jones Leif (Appleby) Reckitt, Harold John
Boland, John Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Reddy, M.
Bright, Allan Heywood Jordan, Jeremiah Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Kearley, Hudson, E. Reid, Sir R. Thresihe(Dumfries
Burke, E. Haviland- Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan. W. Richards, Thomas
Caldwell, James Kilbride, Denis Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Lamont, Norman Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Causton, Richard Knight Langley, Batty Roche, John (Galway, East)
Channing, Francis Allston Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal W. Roe, Sir Thomas
Cheetham, John Frederick Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall Rose, Charles Day
Clancy, John Joseph Layland-Barratt, Francis Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland
Cogan, Denis J. Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Condon, Thomas Joseph Leigh, Sir Joseph Shackleton, David James
Crean, Eugene Levy, Maurice Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Cremer, William Randal Lough, Thomas Sheehy, David
Crombie, John William Lundon, W. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crooks William Lyell, Charles Henry Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Cullinan J MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Slack, John Bamford
Delany, William MacVeagh, Jeremiah Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N. M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Soares, Ernest J.
Dobbie, Joseph M'Fadden, Edward Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R. (Northants
Donelan, Captain A. M'Hugh, Patrick A. Sullivan, Donal
Doogan, P. C. M'Kean, John Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Duncan, J. Hastings M'Kenna, Reginald Tennant, Harold John
Edwards, Frank M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Elibank, Master of Mansfield, Horace Rendall Thompson, Dr.E C(MonaghanN
Ellice, Capt. E. C. (SAndrw'sBghs Mooney. John J. Tomkinson, James
Ellis, John Edward (Notts) Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Toulmin, (George
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Moss, Samuel Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Eve, Harry Trelawney Muldoon, John Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Farrell, James Patrick Murnaghan, George Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Fenwick, Charles Murphy, John Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Ffrench Peter Nannetti, Joseph P. Weir, James Galloway
Field, William Nolan. Col. John P. (Galway. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Findlay, Alexander(Lanark, NE Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Nussey, Thomas Willans Whiteley, George (York, W. R.
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Gilhooly, James O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Gladstone, RtHn. Herbert John O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Griffith, Ellis, J. O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Hammond, John O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) Woodhouse, Sir JT. (Huddersf'd
Harcourt, Lewis O'Donnell. T. (Kerry, W.) Young, Samuel
Hardie, J. Keir(Merthyr Tydvil) O'Dowd, John
Hayden, John Patrick O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) TELLER FOR THE NOES—Mr. Churchill and Major Seely
Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. O'Kelly, James(Rocsommon, N
Healy, Timothy Michael O'Mallev, William

Bill read a second time, and committed for To-morrow

Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

claimed, "That the Main Question be now put"

Main Question put. accordingly, and greed to.

Whereupon, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 31st day of July Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put.

Adjourned at nineteen minutes before Two o'clock.