HC Deb 26 July 1904 vol 138 cc1283-315


Order read, for resuming Adjourned Debate on Amendment [26th July] proposed to the Bill. on Consideration, as amended—

Which Amendment was— In page 1, line 5, after the word 'licence,' to insert the words 'other than a licence the holder of which is subject to conditions requiring him to purchase the commodities or goods which he sells or uses from any particular person, firm or company.'"—(Mr. Herbert Lewis.)

Question again proposed, "That those words be there inserted."


continuing his remarks, said that not only were the public injured by being supplied with drink of an inferior quallty, but the ratepayers lost a certain amount by way of the returns on the rateable value which should attach to a licensed house, because the brewer kept down the nominal value of the house and sought to get his profit by means of the beer and spirits which he compelled his tenants to buy. With regard to the Solicitor-General's refer ences to the history of the tied-house system, he expressed a doubt whether it had arisen from the necessity brewer, were under of advancing money for the purpose of repairs, and pointed out that the Majority Report of the Peel Commission attributed it rather to competition. He added that while the Report admitted that under a good and careful brewer the system might operate advantageously, and good results might follow vet under less satisfactory conditions tin tie might have quite the contrary effect The Minority Report went further am said the general eject of the tied-house system was to push the sale of liquor. If hon. Members opposite believed that to be the case, but yet wanted the Bill to be a measure of temperance reform, how could they explain the attitude they were taking in regard to the Amendment before the House?


said, as a matter of personal explanation, the hon. Member having challenged his statements with regard to the origin of tied houses, he might say he got his facts from the "History of Liquor Licences," by Sidney Webb.


said that the tied-house system arose principally through persons in the trade obtaining loans from brewers, distillers, and mineral water manufacturers, a man wanting a loan very often going to a brewer and offering the additional recompense, beyond the interest, of agreeing to sell his beer. But the system was due in a great measure also to contract. The publican went to the brewer, or the brewer to the publican, and it was arranged that only a certain beer should I be sold on the condition that it was supplied at a reduced rate, an arrangement which the brewer was only too glad to fall in with. No one could deny that that was a perfectly legitimate arrangement. He did not believe the tying of houses led to the sale of had leer. Such a thing he believed was quite I contrary to the experience of hon. Members of this House, because on the whole it was with good brewers that contracts such as he had mentioned were made. From a purely theoretical point of view I he was not a friend to the tied-house system, and he acknowledged the desirability of the publican being able to deal where be liked. At the same time he recognised that that was practically an impossibility, because the publican was sure to be in some need of the brewer, the distiller, or the mineral water manufacturer. But if he were asked whether the free or the tied house had been the better conducted he would be bound to admit that as a rule the tied house was the better conducted of the two. He had always found that where a brewer was the freeholder or the leaseholder of a house and had let the house to a tenant it was always better conducted than what was called a free house. A considerable portion of this debate had taken place upon this clause and upon the sub-section of Clause 2, which dealt with the amount to be paid to the actual licensee, the desire being that the actual publican should get as large a share of the compensaition as possible. He agreed with the Solicitor-General that if the Amendment were carried practically no licences would be suppressed. It was stated by the hon. Member for the Flint Boroughs that 85 per cent, of the houses were tied; and it was manifest, therefore, that only 15 per cent. would cane within the scope of the Bill, if the Amendment were accepted. Therefore, the Amendment would nullify the Bill altogether. The hon. Member for South Melton said that if the Bill were passed, the persons who held the tie would free the houses; but that was not in the least degree likely. A large number of the houses were tied by loan, and they certainly would not be freed. Houses tied by lease might be freed; but they would be the worst class of houses, and they could not even rely on that. He was not one of those who thought that a reduction in the numbers of public-houses would bring about a millennium; but he was most anxious that the experiment should be tried. If the Amendment were accepted the Bill would be reduced to a very small compass; and he, therefore, earnestly hoped it would be rejected.

MR. JOSEPH WALTON (Yorkshire W. R., Barnsley)

said there was no question which he should like to see dealt with more than the tied-house question. He should welcome any Bill which provided for the total abolition of the tied-house system, because he believed the system did much to lessen the sobriety of the people. In the district for which he acted as a licensing justice nearly the whole of the public-houses in certain villages were owned by two brewery companies. The tenants were bound to take their beers, spirits, aerated waters and even tobacco pipes and sawdust from certain brewery companies. In the interests of the public the tenants of these houses ought to enjoy the blessings of free trade. The House of Commons seemed to have entirely lost sight of the nights and interests of the British public. A house was licensed not for the benefit of the licensed holder, but for the convenience of the public. The people, therefore, had a right to demand that they should drink the beers and the spirits they desired and not be compelled to take them from one source. In Yorkshire men had been known to walk many miles from home to get beer fit to drink. Hon. Gentlemen opposite might think that the payment of compensation would settle the tied-house system; but he ventured to predict it would be no settlement at all. The Bill was a brewery company's endowment Bill, not a Bill in the interests of the licensed holders. If hon. Gentlemen opposite were temperance reformers, they would insist that every man holding a licence should be responsible for the proper conduct of the house, and be liable to have his licence removed for misconduct. They were told that tied houses were better conducted; but, surely, the responsibility of a manager was less than that of an owner. Whenever a tied house was badly conducted, and a case was brought before Brewster sessions the representative of the brewery could say how extremely sorry the company were, that they had an excellent character with the man, but that they were misled, and that it was entirely contrary to their desire that the house should be mis-conducted. The company would then ask that the licence be transfered to another manager. He believed this was one of the most important questions involved in the measure, and that the great majority of the people of this country, and of licence-holders themselves, urgently demanded that the iniquitous tied-house system should be utterly abolished. He claimed that on the principles of free trade publicans should be able to buy in the best and cheapest market and so provide purer liquor than they now supplied.

MR. RENWICK (Newcastle-on-Tyne)

said they had been occupied for a considerable time in endeavouring to settle the extremely difficult question of compensation to publicans who lost their licences through no fault of their own, but he put it to the House that to accept this Amendment and bring 15 per cent. of the licence-holders within the Bill and leave 85 per cent. out, would be to get justice by doing an injustice to the greatest number. They had heard some pretty strong statements from hon. Members opposite, but he had an idea that publicans were sufficiently wide-awake when a house was offered to them to inquire into the matter and discover whether it was a good bargain or not. They were told that a tied house had to sell had beer which no free house would take. For many years he had been an advocate of pure beer, and had presented his views from many a platform during elections in populous working-class constituencies, but he had been opposed by teetotalers and extreme Radica's. 'He was once violently assailed by teetotalers who said that if they had purer drink working men would have to spend more money to get drunk and so an injustice would be done. He believed they were more likely to get purer beer from the great brewers than from small free houses. The breweries had a great reputation to uphold. They were extremely careful that their houses should be well conducted, that good liquor should be supplied, and that no black mark should be put against their licences. They had no temptation whatever to sell had drink. In many, if not in most cases, the big, well-conducted houses belonging to brewery companies had the largest trade because their customers were good judges of what was good beer. He trusted that the House would reject the Amendment by a large majority. They were most anxious for a settlement, but were not likely to get it by leaving 65 per cent. of the licensed victuallers outside the benefit of the Bill. He did not believe that the brewers would, as had been stated, charge rack rents, because competition would have a levelling influence. He hoped the Amendment would be rejected by a large majority.

MR. HARWOOD (Bolton)

said that the tied-house system had one recommendation of a practical kind, and that was that where the houses were in the hands of a few holders they could be given up. In one district in Manchester, fifty houses were surrendered. It paid the brewery companies to give them up, because they were not worth keeping on. But they would be worth keeping on now, because of the compensation. Under the old order of things it might have been worth while keeping up the tied-house system for the licences that were sometimes surrendered without compensation, but now that that advantage was to be taken away the House were justified in considering the system as a whole. He had said again and again that he was in favour of public-houses and should he sorry to live in a country where there were none. He believed they were a necessary adjunct to our civilisation, and that the people would never give them up altogether. But there were three condiditions under which public-houses should be carried on—they should sell good liquor at a reasonable price, and under proper conditions of sobriety and good conduct. The tied-house system operated against all these conditions. The point of view of the public had not been sufficiently considered. Only the other day he was in a public-house taking a glass of beer and complained that it was horrible stuff. "Yes," said the manager, "you cannot get a decent glass of beer within six miles of this place, because all the public-houses are owned by one firm." ["Name."] The name did not matter. There were several places in the country in which the whole drinking supply of the community was in the hands of one firm. The danger of a monopoly and syndicates was impending, and the public would be robbed. He believed in liquor being good and cheap; but if it was not cheap, at any rate let the State get the advantage of it. He did not agree with the difference in price going into the pockets of private firms. The day would come when the people of England would rise up on this matter. [Ironical cheers.] It was all very well to jeer, but if a working man wanted a glass of beer for his dinner—and he had a right to it—he was entitled to have good honest liquor at a decent and fair price. Neither of those conditions was secured by the tied-house system. The time had come when the House ought to give some attention to the rights of the people in this matter. Was the tied-house system a good system for sobriety and comfort? He was largely in favour of public-houses because they were the only free clubs that the people possessed. They had Liberal clubs and Conservative clubs, but he did not believe in a man associating socially with people who agreed with him. As an employer of working men-and he spoke from experience—he did not believe in a working man who did not associate with his. fellows. It was not the business of a man to work all day and to crouch over his fireside at night. The only place he could go to now was the public-house, which ought to be made a working man's club, 'where he could have his drink with comfort, and amid proper surroundings, with no inducement to go to excess. How did the tied-house system operate in that respect? The manager of a tied house had no particular reason for inducing a man to sit all night over one or two glasses of beer. His business was to get him to drink as much as he could, and then get somebody else to take his place. He could instance case after case where public-houses had been practically turned into drinking bars. The tied-house system was in favour of the drinking bar and against making the public-house a working man's club. After all, they wanted a condition of things in which a working man might be freely supplied and yet would not be

tempted to drink more than was good for him. The manager of a tied house would be discharged if he did not make a certain turnover. He did not care about his reputation; he wanted to do so much. business. He foresaw, therefore, that they were drifting to a great danger. They were drifting to a point where they were going to be in the hands of a terrible monopoly, a monopoly which was going to rob life of some of its greatest pleasures. Members of the House were sent to Parliament to consider the welfare of the people as a whole and he warned them against the development and continuance of a system which was inimical to the true well-being and comfort of the people.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 110; Noes, 199. (Division List No. 279.)

Abraham, William (Rhondda) Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Malley, William
Aisnworth, john Stirling Grant, Corrie O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Barlow, John Emmott Hammond, John Paulton, James Mellor
Barran, Rowland Hirst Harcourt Lewis V. (Rossendale Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Bell, Richard Hardie, J. Keir (MerthyrTydvil) Pirie, Duncan V.
Berri, John Williams Harwood, George Power, Patrick Joseph
Boland, John Heinle, Norval Watson Price, Robert John
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. Rea, Russell
Brigg, John Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Reid, Sir R. Threshie(Dionfries
Broadhurst, Henry Higham, John Sharpe Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Burt, Thomas Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. Roe, Sir Thomas
Caldwell, James Horniman, Frederick John Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Cameron, Robert Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Schwann, Charles E.
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Jacoby, James Alfred Scott, Chas, Prestwich (Leigh.)
Channing, Francis Allston Johnson, John (Gateshead) Shackleton, David James
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea Shaw, Thomas (Hamrick, B.)
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Jones, William(Carnarvonshire Slack, John Bamford
Cremer, William Randal Joyce, Michael Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Crooks, William Kearley, Hudson E. Strachey, Sir Edward
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Kilbride, Denis Sullivan, Donal
Cullinan, J. Lambert, George Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Langley, Batty Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Tomkinson, James
Delany, William Layland- Barratt, Francis Toulmin, George
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Leigh, Sir Joseph Trevelyan, Charles Philips,
Donelan, Captain A. Levy, Maurice Ure, Alexander
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Lewis, John Herbert Walton, John Lawson(Leeds. S
Duncan, J. Hastings Lough, Thomas Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Ellice, CaptEC(S. Andrw'sBghs Lyell, Charles Henry Weir, James Galloway
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) MacVeagh, Jeremiah White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Eve, Harry Trelawney Mansfield, Horace Rendall Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Markham, Arthur Basil Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Farrell, James Patrick Mitchell, Ed. (Fermanagh, N.) Wilson, Henry J.(York, W.R.)
Fenwick, Charles Moulton, John Fletcher Yoxall, James Henry
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Murphy, John
Flavin, Michael Joseph Nussey, Thomas Willans TELLERS FOR THE AYES, Mr.
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Herbert Gladstone and
Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. O'Doherty, William Mr. William M'Arthur.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Arkwright, John Stanhope
Agnew, Sir, Andrew Noel Anson, Sir William Reynell Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O.
Arrol, Sir William Gordon, Hn. J.E.(Elgin& Nairn Newdegate, Francis A. N.
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N.
Bain, Colonel James Robert Goulding, Edward Alfred O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Balcarres, Lord Gray, Ernest (West Ham) O'Dowd, John
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r Green, Walford D. (Wednesb'ry Palmer, Sir Walter (Sailsbury)
Balfour, RtHnGerald W.(Leeds Greene, Sir EW(B'rySEdm'nds Pemberton, John S. G.
Balfour, Kenneth R. Christch. Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Percy, Earl
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Pierpoint, Robert
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Gretton, John Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Groves, James Grimble Pretyman, Ernest George
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Hall, Edward Marshall Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Bignold, Sir Arthur Hardy, Laurence(KentAshford Purvis, Robert
Bigwood, James Hare, Thomas Leigh Rankin, Sir James
Blundell, Colonel Henry Harris, F.Leverton (Tynein'th) Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Bond, Edward Harris, Dr. Fredk. R. (Dulwich) Rateliff, R. F.
Bousfield, William Robert Haslam, Sir Alfred S. Reid, James (Greenock)
Brassey, Albert Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Remnant, James Farquharson
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley. Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine
Brotherton, Edward Allen Heath, James (Staffords. NW. Renwick, George
Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.) Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. Richards, Henry Charles
Bull, William James Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Ridley, Hn. M.W. (Stalybridge
Butcher, John George Hoare, Sir Samuel Ridley,S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Campbell, J.H.M.(Dublin Univ. Hobhouse, RtHnH. (Somers'tE Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Hope, J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys. Hoult, Joseph Robinson, Brooke
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Howard, J. (Mild., Tottenhain Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Chamberlain, RtHn. J.A.(Worc. Hozier, Hn. James HenryCecil Round, Rt. Hon. James
Chapman, Edward Hudson, George Bickersteth Rutherford, W. W.(Liverpool)
Charrington, Spencer Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Clare, Octavius Leigh Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Clive, Captain Percy A. Kennaway, Rt. Hon. SirJohnH. Sharpe, William Edward T.
Coates, Edward Feethain Kennedy, Vincent P. (CavanW Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Cochrane, Hon, Thos. H.A.E. Kenyon, Hn. G. T. (Denbigh) Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Kerr, John Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Compton, Lord Alwyne Kimber, Sir Henry Spear, John Ward
Craig Charles Curtis (Antrim S. King, Sir Henry Seymour Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.)
Cripps, Charles Alfred Knowles, Sir Lees Stone, Sir Benjamin
Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Stroyan, John
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Lawrence, Wm. F.(Liverpool) Talbot, Rt. Hn. JG(Oxf'dUni v.
Dalkeith, Earl of Lawson, J. Grant (Yorks., N.R. Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Lee, ArthurH.(Hants.,Fareham Thompson, DrE.C.(Monagh'nN.
Davenport, William Bromley Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Thornton, Percy M.
Davies, SirHoratio D.(Chatham Legge, Col. on. Heneage Tillett, Louis John
Denny, Colonel Long, Rt.Hn.Walter(Bristol,S. Tomlinson, Sir Win. Ed. M.
Dewar, Sir T.R.(TowerHamlets Lowe, Francis William Tritton, Charles Ernest
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Loyd, Archie Kirkman Tuff, Chkrles
Dickson, Charles Scott Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsnlouth Valentia, Viscount
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Abred Vincent, Col. SirC. EH(Sheffield
Dixon-Hartland, SirFred Dixon Maconochie, A. W. Walker, Col. William Hall
Doogan, P. C. M'lver, SirLewis(Edinburgh W. Warde, Colonel C. E.
Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Webb, Colonel William George
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Welby, Lt.-Ct. A.C.E.(Taunton
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Manners, Lord Cecil Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W. Maxwell, RtHnSirH. E.(Wigt'n Whiteley, H. (Ashton undLyne
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. SirJ.(Manc'r Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Molesworth, Sir Lewis Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Worsley-Taylor, HenryWilson
Fisher, William Hayes Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Wrightson, Sir Thomas
FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose Morpeth, Viscount Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon Morrell, George Herbert Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Flower, Sir Ernest Mount, William Arthur
Forster, Henry William Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. TELLERS FOR THE NOES, Sir
Foster, Philip S. (Warwick, SW. Murray, RtHnAGrahain (Bute Alexander Acland-Hood,
Gardner, Ernest Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) and Mr. Ailwvn Fellowes.
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Nannetti, Joseph P.

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 1, line 6, to leave out the words 'existing at the date of the passing of this Ac.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Amendment agreed to.


said this Amendment had not been moved during the Committee stage, although the subject-matter had been previously discussed. Therefore, he thought it was desirable that the House should have an opportunity of expressing its opinion upon it. The object of the Amendment was to make it clear that the discretion of the local justices should remain untouched except in cases where licences were refused on the sole ground of non-necessity. He was not going to discuss the decision in Sharpe v. "Wakefield," because, whatever might be the opinion of hon. Members in regard to the real meaning of this Bill, there was no doubt that this procedure by enumeration in reference to renewal had been practically condemned by the unanimous voice of the magistrates of the country so far as the 1869 beerhouses were concerned. It had been condemned by the Royal Commission, and the importance of the point he was now raising had been fully realised by those interested in the trade. Last year there was a Bill introduced in another place with the express object of limiting the discretion of the local justices in reference to the 1869 beerhouses. That Bill was based upon the petitions sent from Liverpool and Manchester urging the importance of legislation upon the subject. The two great reforms demanded in those petitions were that all on-licences should he made subject to the four conditions laid down, and that the local justices should be obliged to state their reasons for refusing any licences. In a reply given upon a former occasion by the Solicitor-General, he stated that if that Amendment were carried there would always be a difficulty in defining the meaning of the phrase "public interest," and he referred to the possible case of a licensed house happening to be near a church, or chapel, or school, and said that although it might be right to argue that that was not a suitable place for a public-house it might be very unfair to refuse that licence without compensation. The right hon. Gentleman's next point was that the phrase "ill-conducted" covered the case which he was now bringing before the House, and practically provided what he desired, namely, a clear definition of the fact that licences should not be refused without compensation except upon the sole grounds of non-necessity. There was a striking similarity between the words of the section and the four words which had proved so fatal a bar to licensing reform in reference to 1869 beerhouses. He was afraid that if this Bill were passed in the form in which it now stood it would lead to innumerable difficulties and would very seriously impair the full discretion of the local licensing justices. He asked the Government upon what possible grounds could they object to making this point perfectly clear. The alleged object of this Bill was not to interfere with the discretion of the justices except on this particular point, and he asked that this should now be made perfectly clear by the acceptance of the words he had suggested. Although he was aware it was difficult to obtain a concession of this character at this stage he still hoped that it would be possible for the Solicitor-General to favourably consider the proposal he had made. Upon those general grounds he begged to move the Amendment which stood in his name.

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 1, line 6, to leave out from the word 'on' to the word 'shall,' in line 10, and insert the words 'the sole ground that the licensed premises are not required in the public interest.'"—(Mr. Herbert Roberts.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."


said the object of the Bill was not to interfere with the disciplinary powers of the licensing justices. It was impossible to draft the Bill in the simple way suggested by the hon. Member. The words "not required in the public interest," for instance, were incapable of comprehensive definition. The magistrates might in the enforcement of particular ideas deprive a man of his licence on what were not really public grounds. The Bill could not be drafted in the form suggested without leaving it open in that way. What the Government had done. therefore, was to specify the causes for which a man would cease to have a title to compensation. When they set up an insurance fund they must, before asking a person to subscribe to it, show him as specifically as they could what he was going to insure against. Supposing the magistrates—and he was taking what had really happened—said they would only renew a licence upon certain conditions, and the applicant said he could not carry on his house upon such terms, and the magistrates consequence took away the licence. Was that a matter of the public interest? There was one case in which the magistrates would net renew a licence because the man had erected a telephone in his house, and in another case the magistrates would not renew the licence unless only such wines were sold as were made in England. The hon. Member might think that these were very trivial matters, but they led to a great deal of difficulty in the administration of the law. These were questions which should be left to the discretion of the magistrates. They might deprive a man of his licence who had contributed to the insurance Fund not on public grounds, but because he would not accept their view. [An HON. MEMBER: That would be a public ground.] What the Government had tried to do was to specify the cases in which a licence-holder would not be entitled to compensation. An Amendment was agreed to on behalf of the Government in relation to the breach of conditions made in the public interest, and it had been inserted in a subsequent part of the Bill. He could assure the hon. Member that the Government had carefully considered the matter from his point of view, and, whether they were right or wrong in the conclusion they had come to, they had done their best to meet the specific cases in which a nun ought to get no compensation.


said they ought to be gratified with the interpretation which the Solicitor-General had put on the clause. As he understood the

speech it meant in effect that there was to be no compensation when a house was not required in the public interests. He thought that was a very important comment en the meaning of the Bill. The right hon. and learned Gentleman had said that the Bill was more clear than the Amendment of his hon. friend. He understood the right hon. and learned Gentleman to say that if the magistrates required certain conditions to be fulfilled and the licensee did not fulfil them, then the House was ill-conducted.


was understood to dissent.


asked whether, if the magistrates said that a house was not to be opened on Sunday and the licensee refused to agree to that condition the licensee would be entitled to compensation under the Bill. [An HON. MEMBER: Certainly.] An hon. Members aid "centainly," but that was news to some of them. The hon. and learned Gentleman was anxious to preserve the disciplinary power of the magistrates, but it was doing away with it entirely, if the magistrates could not exact a condition of that kind. That would be to take away the discretion they had under the present law. He would support the Amendment of his hon. friend because it put the matter in a more specific and definite form.

Question put.

The House divided.:—Ayes, 217; Noes, 135. (Division List No. 280.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bond, Edward Cripps, Charles Alfred
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bousfield, William Robert Cross, Herb. Shepherd(Bolton)
Allhusen, AugustusHenryEden Brassey, Albert Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile
Anson, Sir William Reynell Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Dalkeith, Earl of
Arkwright, John Stanhope Brotherton, Edward Allen Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Arnold-Forster, RtHnHughO. Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.) Davenport, William Bromley-
Arrol, Sir William Bull, William James Davies, SirHoratioli(Chatham
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Butcher, John George Denny, Colonel
Aubrey-Fletcher, RtHon. Sir H. Campbell, J.H.M. (DublinUniv Dewar, SirT. R.(TowerHainlets
Bain, Colonel James Robert Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Dickinson, Robert Edmond
Baird, John George Alexander Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire Dickson, Charles Scott
Balcarres, Lord Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J.(Manch'r Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Dixon-Hartland, SirFred Dixon
Balfour, RtHn Gerald W. (Leeds Chaimberlain, Rt. HnJ. A.(Worc. Doogan, P.C.
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Chapman, Edward Dorington, RtHon. SirJohnE.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Charrington, Spencer Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Clare, Octavius Leigh Hurtling-Lawrence, Sir Edwin
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Clive, Captain Percy, A. Faber, Edinund B. (Hants, W.)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Coates, Edward Feetham Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J.(Mauc'r
Bignold, Sir Arthur Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H.A.E. Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.
Bigwood, James Colston, Chas Edw. H. Athole Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne
Bingham, Lord Compton, Lord Alwyne Fisher, William Hayes
Blundell, Colonel Henry Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S. FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose.
Fitzroy, Hon. EdwardAlgerton Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Ridley, Hon. M.W.(Stalyhridge
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A.R. Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Flower, Sir Ernest Long, RtHnWalter(Bristol,S) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Forster, Henry William Lonsdale, John Brownlee Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Foster, Philip S.(Warwick, S.W. Lowe, Francis William Robinson, Brooke
Galloway, William Johnson Lloyd, Archie Kirkman Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Gardner, Ernest Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Round, Rt. Hon. James
Gordon, Hn. J.E.(Elgin& Nairn Maconochie, A.W. Royds, Clement Molyneux
Gorst, Rt. Hon. SirJohnEldon M'Iver, SirLewis(EdinburghW. Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Goulding, Edward Alfred M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Manners, Lord Cecil Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Green, Walford D.(Wednesbury Maxwell, RtHnSirHE(Wigt'n Samuel, SirHarryS.(Limehouse
Greene, Sir EW(B'rySEdm'nds Melville, Beresford Valentine Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Seton-Karr, Sir Heary
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Molesworth, Sir Lewis Sharpe, William Edward T.
Gretton, John Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Groves, James Grimble Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Hall, Edward Marshall Morgan, DavidJ.(Walthamstow Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East)
Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Morpeth, Viscount Spear, John Ward
Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford Morrell, George Herbert Stanley, EdwardsJas.(Somerset)
Hare, Thomas Leigh Morton, Arthur H. Alymer Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord(Lancs.)
Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th Mount, William Arthur Stone, Sir Benjamin
Harris, Dr. Fredk. R. (Dulwich) Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Stroyan, John
Haslam, Sir Alfred S, Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'd Univ.
Hatch, Ernest Fredk. Geo. Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Hay, Hon. Claude George Nannetti, Joseph P. Thompson, DrEC(Monagh'n N.
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Newdegate, Francis A. N. Thornton, Percy M.
Heath, James (Staffords. N.W.) Nicholson, William Graham Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Heaton, John Henniker Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N. Tritton, Charles Ernest
Henderson, Sir A.(Statford, W.) Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Tuff, Charles
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. O'Brien, Patrick (Killkenny) Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Hoare, Sir Samuel O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Valenti, Viscount
Hobhouse, RtHnH.(Somers't, E O'Dowd, John Vincent, Col. SirC. E.H.(Sheffield
Hope, J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Walker, Col. William Hall
Hoult, Joseph Petnberton, John S. G. Warde, Colonel C. E.
Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Percy, Earl Webb, Colonel William George
Hudson, George Bickersteth Pierpoint, Robert. Welby, Lt.-Col. A.C.E.(Taunton
Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. ArthurFred. Platt-Higgins, Frederick Whiteley, H.(Ashton und. Lyne
Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Pretyman, Ernest George Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Kennaway, Rt. Hon. SirJohnH. Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Kerr, John Purvis, Robert Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Keswick, William Pym, C. Guy Wortley, Rt. Hon. C.B. Stuart.
Kimber, Sir Henry Rankin, Sir James Wrightson, Sir Thomas
King, Sir Henry Seymour Rasch, Sir Frederick Carne Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Knowles, Sir Lees Ratcliffe, R. F. Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Reid, James (Greenock)
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Remnant, James Farquharson TELLERS FOR THE AYES, Sir
Lawson, JohnGrant(YorksN.R. Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine Alexander Acland-Hood and
Lee, Arthurff.(Hants., Fareham Renwick, George Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Richards, Henry Charles
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Cameron, Robert Eve, Harry Trelanwney
Ainsworth, John Stirling Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Farquharson, Dr. Robert
Allen, Charles P. Channing, Francis Allston Farrell, James Patrick
Asher, Alexander Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Fenwick, Charles
Ashton, Thomas Gair Craig. Robert Hunter (Lanark) Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith)
Asquith, RtHon. Herbert Henry Cremer, William Randal Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond
Atherley-Jones, L. Crombie, John William Flavin, Michael Joseph
Barlow, John Emmott. Crooks, William Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)
Barran, Rowland Hirst Cross. Alexander (Glasgow) Freeman-Thomas, Captain F.
Beaumont, Wentworth C.B. Cullinan, J. Gladstone, Rt. Hn. HerbertJohn
Bell, Richard Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Goddard, Daniel Ford
Benn, John Williams Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan Grant, Corrie
Boland, John Delany, William Hammond, John
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles. Harcourt, LewisV.(Rossendale
Brigg, John Donelan, Captain A. Harwood, George
Broadhurst, Henry Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Hayte., Rt. Hon. SirArtiturD.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Duncan, J. Hastings Heinle, Norval Watson
Burt, Thomas Ellice, Capt. EC(S. Andrw'sBghs Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H.
Buxton, Sydney Charles Ellis, JohnEdward (Notts.) Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Caldwell, James Evans, SirFrancisH.(Maidstone Higham, John Sharpe
Hobhouse, C.E.H.(Bristol, E.) Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N. Slack, John Bamford,
Horniman, Frederick John Moulton, John Fletcher Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Hutchinson, Dr. CharlesFredk. Murphy, John Sullivan, Donal
Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Norman, Henry Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Jacoby, James Alfred Nussey, Thomas Willans Thomas, DavidAlfred (Merthyr)
Johnson, John (Gateshead) O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid Tomkinson James
Joicey, Sir James O'Doherty, William Tonlmin, George
Jones, DavidBrynmor(Swansea O'Malley. William Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Jones, William (Carnarvonshire O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Ure, Alexander
Joyce, Michael Paulton, James Mellor Wallace, Robert
Kearley, Hudson E. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Walton, JohnLawson(Leeds, S.
Kennedy, Vincent P.(Cavan, W. Pirie, Duncan V. Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Kilbride, Denis Power, Patrick Joseph Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Langley, Batty Price, Robert John Weir, James Galloway
Law, Hugh Alex.(Donegal, W. Priestley, Arthur White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Rea, Russell Whiteley, George (York. W. R.)
Layland-Barratt, Francis Reid, SirR. Threshie (Dumfries. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Leigh, Sir Joseph Rickett, J. Compton Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Levy, Maurice Roberts, John Bryn (Eition) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Lewis, John Herbert Roe, Sir Thomas Woodhouse, SirJ. T.(Huddersf' d.
Lough, Thomas Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) Yoxall, James Henry
Lyell, Charles Henry Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Sehwann, Charles E. TELLERS FOR THE NOES, Mr.
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh) Herbert Roberts and Mr.
M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Shackleton, David James Ellis Griffith
Mansfield. Horace Rendall Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Markham, Arthur Basil Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)

said that the object of the Amendment standing in his name was very simple. It provided that the local magistrates in their report to quarter sessions should state any circumstances affecting the renewal or the value of the licence which they considered material At present there was machinery for getting full information. The parties went before the local magistrates, who, after ail, knew most of the conditions. There was an appeal, with the cross-examination of witnesses; but in future that would not be so. As the Bill now stood the local magistrates would refer the matter to quarter sessions with a report thereon, but that report might be of the most meagre description, and might only say that in their judgment the licence should not be renewed. If his words were adopted, every circumstance effecting the licence which was considered material would be reported to quarter sessions. The reason why he had put 'value" into the Amendment was that this question of valuation had not yet been fully discussed, and was still shrouded in a great deal of mystery. They ought to know on what principle the licence would be valued. Would it be according to the way in which the house had been conducted? Surely quarter sessions ought to have full information before they proceeded to appreciate the value of a licence.

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 1, line 24, to leave out the word 'thereon' and insert the words 'on any circumstances affecting the renewal or the value of the licence which they consider material.'" —(Mr. Henry Hobhouse.)

Question proposed:— "That the word 'thereon' stand part of the Bill."


said that the Amendment proposed by the right hon. Gentleman seemed to him to be absolutely unnecessary. What he proposed was, to leave the report absolutely to the discretion of the local magistrates, who would naturally report all the materials to enable quarter sessions to form an opinion as to whether the licence should be renewed or not. The Amendment would restrict and stereotype the character of the report, where as the Government desired to leave it open to the magistrates to present their report in any form they thought best. The right hon. Gentleman said that quarter sessions would have a difficulty in coming to a conclusion, because they would have no local knowledge; but the Government had taken care that the justices in quarter sessions should hold consultations with the local magistrates, and they held that a great deal of this work, at all events in the first instance, would be largely done by the judicious action of the justices, who could ask the local magistrates for information on various matters not brought before them. If anything else was necessary, there would be a hearing at quarter sessions. On these grounds he thought it was not necessary to have a particular form of report. His right hon. friend also said that there should be a report on the value of the licence. He did not know whether his right hon. friend recollected that the value of the licence was to be ascertained by the Leland Revenue. Moreover, there was nothing to prevent quarter sessions employing a surveyor or an auctioneer with the object of obtaining any information required. Nothing would be more disastrous than to set up an expensive mode of procedure, which would be necessary in every case, arid which would largely eat into the compensation fund. If quarter sessions and the local magistrates approached each other, as he assumed they would, in a business-like way, they would be able to get rid of a great deal of the difficulty without incurring any unnecessary expense.


said that to his mind it was extremely important that the quarter sessions should have before them a formal document setting forth the grounds on which the local justices recommended the refusal of the renewal of the licence. It was not possible, at that stage of the Bill and of the evening, to go into the questions of value, which really arose on the compensation clause. In his view, in a great many cases it would not be necessary to call in the Inland Revenue at all; but he would ask the Solicitor-General how the approval of quarter sessions could be properly and judicially given to any agreement between the parties as regarded value, unless they had before them the grounds

on which the local magistrates had acted. He thought the Amendment would undoubtedly, from an administrative point of view, be a great improvement.


The matter which stands out from this—shall I call it discussion—is this, that the discussion is entirely unreal. My hon. and learned friend who has just sat down and others on his side of the House are in favour of this most reasonable Amendment. But what is the use of it? It will not be accepted by the Government. There is no opportunity of discussing it in the House. We are called upon now to pass a certain part of this Bill. There are nearly two pages of the Bill which have not been discussed in Committee and which have not been discussed upon Report, and Amendments have been introduced into this part of the Bill by the Government which have never been before the House at all. Why should we go on with the pretence of going through what is called a stage of the Bill under these conditions? What a perfect farce and imposture the whole proceeding is, as my hon. and learned friend who has just sat down would be the first to admit; in fact, he has admitted it in his own observations—

And it being Eleven of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER proceeded, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 5th July, to put the Amendment already proposed from the Chair.

Question put, "That the word 'thereon' stand part of the Bill."

The House divided:—Ayes, 229; Noes, 160. (Division List, No. 281.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Chapman, Edward
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bignold, Sir Arthur Charrington, Spencer
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Bigwood, James Clancy, John Joseph
Anson, Sir William Reynell Bingham, Lord Clare, Octavius Leigh
Arkwright, John Stanhope Blundell, Colonel Henry Clive, Captain Percy A
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. HughO. Bond, Edward Coates, Edward Feetham
Arrol, Sir William Boustield, William Robert Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Brassey, Albert Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Compton, Lord Alwyne
Bagot, Capt.Josceline FitzRoy Brotherton, Edward Allen Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)
Bain, Colonel James Robert Brown, Sir Alex. R. (Shropsh.) Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton).
Baird, John George Alexander Bull, William James Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile
Balcarres, Lord Butcher, John George Cust, Henry John C.
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Campbell, J.H.M.(Dublin Univ Dalkeith, Earl of
Balfour, RtHn. GeraldW.(Leeds Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire Davenport, William Bromley-
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Davies, Sir FloratioD.(Chatham
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Dewar, Sir T.R.(Tower Hamlets
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A.(Worc. Dickinson, Robert Edmond
Dickson, Charles Scott Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Rateliff, R. F.
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. Lawrence, Sir Joseph (Monm'th Reid, James (Greenock)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Lawrence, Wm. F. (Li erpool) Remnant, James Farquharson
Doogan, P. C. Lawson, JohnGrant (Yorks. N.R Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine
Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir JohnE. Lee, Arthur H(Hants., Fareham Renwick, George
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Richards, Henry Charles
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Llewellyn, Evan Henry Ridley, S. Forde)Bethnal Green
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J.(Manc'r Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Robert, Samuel (Sheffield)
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S. Robinson, Brooke
Fisher, William Hayes Lonsdale, John Brownlee Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose Lowe, Francis William Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon Loyd, Archie Kirkman Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Round, Rt. Hon. James
Flower, Sir Ernest Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsmouth Royds, Clement Molyneux
Forster, Henry William Lyttelton. Rt. Hon. Alfred Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Foster, Philip S.(Warwick, S.W. Maconochie, A. W. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Galloway, William Johnson M'Iver, SirLewis(Edinburgh, W. Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Gardner, Ernest M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Samuel, SirHarry S.(Limehouse
Garfit, William Manners, Lord Cecil Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Gordon, Hn. J.E.(Elgin& Nairn. Maxwell, Rt. Hn. SirH. E.(Wigt'n Seton-Karr, Sir Henry
Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby Melville, Beresford Valentene Sharpe, William Edward T.
Goulding, Edward Alfred Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Mildmay, Francis Bingham Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Green, Waford D.(Wednesbury Molesworth, Sir Lewis Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Greene, SirE. W.(B'ryS. Edm'nd Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Greene, Henry D.(Shrewsbury) Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Stanley, Edward Jas.(Somerset
Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs. Morgan, David J.(Walthamstow Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.
Gretton, John Morpeth, Viscount Stone, Sir Benjamin
Groves, James Grimble Morrell, George Herbert Stroyan, John
Hall, Edward Marshall Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Mount, William Arthur Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'd. Univ.
Hardy, Laurence(KentAshford, Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Hare, Thomas Liegh Murray, Rt. H. n. A. Graliam(Bute Thompson, DrE. C.(Monagh'n, N
Harrris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) Murray, Charles.J. (Coventry) Thornton, Percy M.
Harris, Dr. Fredk. R. (Dulwich Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Haslam, Sir Alfred S. Nannetti, Joseph P. Tuff, Charles
Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Newdegate, Francis A. N. Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Hay, Hon. Claude George Nicholson, William Graham Valentia, Viscount
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N. Vincent, Col. SirC. E.H.(Sheffield
Heath, James (Staffords. N. W. Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Walker, Co. William Hall
Heaton, John Henniker O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Warde, Colonel C. E.
Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W.) O'Dowd, John Webb, Colonel William George
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Welby, Lt.-Col A.C.E.(Tanuton
Hoare, Sir Samuel Parker, Sir Gilbert Whiteley, H.(Ashton und Lyne
Hoult, Joseph Parkes, Ebenezer Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Hudson, George Bickersteth Pemberton, John S. G. Wortley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Percy, Earl Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Pierpoint, Robert Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Jessel. Captain Herbert Merton Platt-Higgins, Frederick Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Pretyman, Ernest George Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Kerr, John Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Keswick, William Purvis, Robert TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir
Kimber, Sir Henry Pym, C. Guy Alexander Acland-Hood
King, Sir Henry Seymour Rankin, Sir James and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Knowles, Sir Lees Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Bell, Richard Cameron, Robert
Ainsworth, John Stirling Benn, John Williams Campbell, John (Armagh, S.)
Allen, Charles P. Boland, John Carnpbell-Bannerman, Sir H.
Asher, Alexander Bolton, Thomas Dolling Channing, Francis Allston
Ashton, Thomas Gair Brigg, John Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)
Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herb. Henry Broadhurst, Henry Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark)
Atherley-Jones, L. Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Cremer, William Randal
Barlow, John Emmott Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Crombie, John William
Barran, Rowland Hirst Burt, Thomas Crooks, William
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Buxton, Sydney Charles Cross, Alexander (Glasgow)
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Caldwell, James Cullinan, J.
Dalziel, James Henry Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea Rickett, J. Compton
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Jones, William (Carnarvonsirhe Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan Joyce, Michael Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Delany, William Kearley, Hudson E. Robson, William Snowdon
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. Roe, Sir Thomas
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Kennedy, Vincent P.(Cavan, W. Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Duncan, J. Hastings Kilbride, Denis Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Edwards, Frank Lambert, George Schwann, Charles E.
Fffibank, Master of Langley, Batty Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)
Ellice, CaptE. C.(S Andrw'sBghs Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W) Shackleton, David James
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Evans, Sir Francis H.(Maidstone Layland-Barratt, Francis Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.
Eve, Harry Trelawney Leigh, Sir Joseph Slack, John Bamford
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Levy, Maurice Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Farrell, James Patrick Lewis, John Herbert Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Fenwick, Charles Lloyd-George, David Spear, John Ward
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) Lough, Thomas Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Lyell, Charles Henry Strachey, Sir Edward
Flavin, Michael Joseph Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Sullivan, Donal
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) MaeVeagh, Jeremiah Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Freeman-Thomas, Captain, F. M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Tennant, Harold John
Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herb. John Mansfield, Horace Rendall Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Goddard, Daniel Ford Markham, Arthur Basil Tomkinson, James
Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E. (Berwick) Mitchell, Edw.(Fermanagh, N.) Toulmin, George
Griffith, Ellis, J. Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Moulton, John Fletcher Ure, Alexander
Hammond, John Murphy, John Wallace, Robert
Harcourt, Lewis V.(Rossendale Newnes, Sir George Walton, John Lawson(Leeds, S.
Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil Norman, Henry Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Harwood, George Nussey, Thomas Winans Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Hayden, John Patrick O'Brien, Kmidal(TipperaryMid Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. O'Doherty, William Weir, James Galloway
Helme, Horval Watson O'Malley, William White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. O'Shaughnessy, J. P. Whiteley, George (York, W.R.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Partington, Oswald Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Higham, John Sharpe Paulton, James Mellor Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Wilson, Henry J.(York, W.R.)
Holland, Sir William Henry Perks, Robert William Wood house, Sir J T(Huddersf'd
Horniman, Frederick John Pirie, Duncan V. Yoxall, James Henry
Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Power, Patrick Joseph
Hutton, Alfred E (Morley) Price, Robert John TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.
Jacoby, James Alfred Priestly, Arthur Henry Hobhouse and Mr.
Johnson, John (Gateshead) Rea, Russell Cripps.
Joicey, Sir James Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries

then proceeded successively to put forthwith the Question on any Amendments moved by the Government of which notice had been given, and on every Question necessary to dispose of the allotted business to be concluded on the 5th allotted Day.

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 2, line 6, to leave out the words this Act had not passed,' and insert the words 'the licence were subject to the same conditions of renewal as were applicable imme-

diately before the passing of this Act.'"—(Mr Solicitor-General.)

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 2, line 15, after the word 'appeal,' to insert the words 'to the High Court.'"—(Mr. Solicitor General).

Question put, "That the Amendment be made."

The House divided:—Ayes, 228 Noes, 149. (Division List, No. 282.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Balcarres, Lord Bond, Edward
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(Manch'r) Bousfield, William Robert
Allhusen, Augustus HenryEden Balfour, RtHn. GeraldW.(Leeds Brassey, Albert
Anson, Sir William Reynell Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John
Arkwright, John Stanhope Banbury, Sir Frederick George Brotherton, Edward Allen
Arnold-Forster, Rt. HnHughO. Bartley, Sir George C. T. Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.)
Arrol, Sir William Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Bull, William James
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Butcher, John George
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Bignold, Sir Arthur Campbell, J.H. M.(DublinUniv.
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Bigwood, James Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.
Bain, Colonel James Robert Bingham, Lord Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbyshire
Baird, John George Alexander Blundell, Colonel Henry Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Pierpoint, Robert
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A(Woro. Hoare, Sir Samuel Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Chapman, Edward Hoult, Joseph Pretyman, Robert
Clare, Octavius Leigh Jameson, Major J. Eustace Pym, C. Guy
Clive, Captain Percy A. Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Rankin, Sir James
Coates, Edward Feetham Jesse!, Captain Herbert Merton Ratcliff, R. F.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Reid, James (Greenock)
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. Remnant, James Farquharson
Compton, Lord Alwyne Kerr, John Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine
Craig., Charles Curtis (Antrim, S. Keswick, William Renwick, George
Cripps, Charles Alfred Kimber, Sir Henry Richards, Henry Charles
Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) King, Sir Henry Seymour Ridley, Hon. M. W.(Stalybridge
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Knowles, Sir Lees Ridley, S. Forde (BethnalGreen
Dalkeith, Earl of Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Davenport, W. Bromley Lawson, John Grant (YorksNR. Robinson, Brooke
Davies, Sir HoratioD(Chatham Lee, ArthurH.(Hants. Fareham Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Dewar, Sir T.R.(TowerHamlets Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Dickson, Charles Scott Llewellyn, Evan Henry Round, Rt. Hon. James
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Royds, Clement Molyneux
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol,S) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Doogan, P. C. Lonsdale, John Brownlee Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. Lowe, Francis William Samuel, SirHarryS.(Limehouse
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers Loyd, Archie Kirkman- Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Duke, Henry Edward Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Seton-Marr, Sir Henry
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth Sharpe, William Edward T.
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Lyttleton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J.(Manc'r Maconochie, A. W. Skewcs-Cox, Thomas
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. M'Iver, SirLewis(EditiburghW. Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Fisher, William Hayes Manners, Lord Cecil Spear. John Ward
FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Stanley, Edwd. Jas. (Somerset
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Maxwell, Rt. Hn SirHE.(Wigt'n Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.)
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Melville, Beresford Valentine Stone, Sir Benjamin
Flower, Sir Ernest Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Stroyan, John
Forster, Henry William Mildmay, Francis Bingham Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Foster, Philip S.(Warwick,S.W. Molesworth, Sir Lewis Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'd Univ.
Galloway, William Johnson Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Gardner, Ernest Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Thompson, Dr. E.C(Monagh'n, N
Garfit, William Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Thornton, Percy M.
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Morgan, DavidJ(Walthainstow Tomlinson, Sir Win. Edw. M.
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn Morpeth, Viscount Tuff, Charles
Goulding, Edward Alfred Morrell, George Herbert Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Valentia, Viscount
Green, Walford D.(Wednesbury Mount, William Arthur Vincent, ColSirC. E.H.(Shellield)
Greene, SirE. W.(B'rySEdm'nds Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Walker, Col. William Hall
Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Murray, RtH n A. Grahanq Bute Warde, Colonel C. E.
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) Webb, Colonel William George
Gretton, John Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Welby, Lt.-Col. A.C.E.(Taunton
Groves, James Grimble Nannetti, Joseph P. Whiteley, H.(Ashton und. Lyne
Hall, Edward Marshall Newdegate, Francis A. N. Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Nicholson, William Graham Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Hare, Thomas Leigh Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Haslam, Sir Alfred S. O'Dowd, John Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Hay, Hon. Claude George Parker, Sir Gilbert
Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Parkes, Ebenezer TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir
Heath, James(Staffords., N.W.) Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Alexander Acland-Hood and
Heaton, John Henniker Pemberton, John S. G. Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. Percy, Earl
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry Bell, Richard
Ainsworth, John Stirling Atherley-Jones, L. Benn, John Williams
Allen, Charles P. Barlow, John Emmott Boland, John
Asher, Alexander Barran, Rowland Hirst Bolton, Thomas Dolling
Ashton, Thomas Gair Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Brigg, John
Broadhurst, Henry Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Perks, Robert William
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Higham, John Sharpe Pirie, Duncan V.
Burt, Thomas Hobhouse, C.E.H. (Bristol, E. Power, Patrick Joseph
Caldwell, James Holland, Sir William Henry Price, Robert John
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Horniman, Frederick John Rea, Russell
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries
Channing, Francis Allston Hutton, FAlfred E. (Morley) Rickett, J. Compton
Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow) Jacoby, James Alfred Roberts, John Bryn (Ellion))
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Johnson, John (Gateshead) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Cremer, William Randal Joicey, Sir James Robson, William Snowdon
Crombie, John William Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea Roe, Sir Thomas
Crooks, William Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Runciman, Walter
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Joyce, iMichael Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cullinan, J. Kearley, Hudson E. Schwann, Charles E.
Dalziel, James Henry Kennedy, Vincent P.(Cavan, W. Shackleton, David James
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Kilbride, Denis Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan Lambert, George Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Delany, William Langley, Batty Slack, John Bamford
Mike, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Law, Hugh Alex.(Donegal, W.) Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Duncan, J. Hastings Leyland-Barratt, Francis Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Edwards, Frank Leigh, Sir Joseph Sullivan, Donal
Ellice, CaptEC(SAndrw'sBghs Levy, Maurice Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Lewis, John Herbert Tennant, Harold John
Evans, Sir Francis H (Maidstone Lloyd-George, David Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr)
Eve, Harry Trelawney Lough, Thomas Tomkinson, James
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Lyell, Charles Henry Ure, Alexander
Farrell, James Patrick Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Wallace, Robert
Fenwick, Charles MacVeagh, Jeremiah Walton, John Laws on (Leeds, S.)
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmund M'Kenna, Reginald Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Mansfield, Horace Rendall Weir, James Galloway
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Markham, Arthur Basil White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. Mitchell, Edw.(Fermanagh, N.) Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)
Gladstone, Rt. HnHerbert John Moulton, John Fletcher Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Goddard, Daniel Ford Murphy, John Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E. (Berwick) Newnes, Sir George Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Griffith, Ellis J. Norman, Henry Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Nussey, Thomas Willans Woodhouse, SirJ. T.(Hudd'rsfi'd
Harcourt, Lewis V.(Rossendale O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid Yoxall, James Henry
Hardie, J. Keir(McrthyrTydvil) O'Doherty, William
Harwood, George O'Malley, William TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.
Hayden, John Patrick O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Herbert Samuel and Mr.
Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. Partington, Oswald Toulmin.
Helme, Norval Watson Paulton, James Mellor

Question, "That the Amendment be made," put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 2, line 19, to leave out the words 'having regard,' and insert the words 'provided that.'"—(Mr. Akers Douglas.)

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 2, line 19, after the word 'holder,' to insert the words 'regard shall be had.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 2, line 22, after the second word 'licence,' to insert the words 'if a tenant.'"—(Mr. Solicitor-General.)

Question put, "That the Amendment be made."

The House divided:—Ayes, 226; Noes, 147. (Division List No. 283.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bain, Colonel James Robert Bigwood, James
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Baird, John George Alexander Bingham, Lord
Allhusen, Augustus Hemy Eden Balcarres, Lord Blundell, Colonel Henry
Anson, Sir William Reynell Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r Bond, Edward
Arkwright, John Stanhope Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald W(Leeds Bousfield, William Robert
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. HughO. Balfour, Kenneth R. (Chrisch. Brassey, Albert
Arrol, Sir William Banbury, Sir Frederick George Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bartley, Sir George C. T. Brotherton, Edward Allen
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Rt. Hn. Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.)
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Butcher, John George
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Bignold, Sir Arthur Campbell, J.H.M.(DublinUniv.)
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Heaton, John Henniker Pemberton, John S. G.
Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire Henderson, Sir A.(Stafford, W. Percy, Earl
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Pierpoint, Robert
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hoare, Sir Samuel Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A(Worc. Hoult, Joseph Pretyman, Ernest George
Chapman, Edward Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Charrington, Spencer Hudson, George Bickersteth Purvis, Robert
Clancy, John Joseph Jameson, Major J. Eustace Pym, C. Guy
Clare, Octavius Leigh Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Rankin, Sir James
Clive, Captain Percy A. Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Ratcliff, R. F.
Coates, Edward Feetham Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Reid, James (Greenock)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Kerr, John Remnant, James Farquharson
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Keswick, William Renwick, George
Compton, Lord Alwyne Kimber, Jir Henry Richards, Henry Charles
Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.) King, Sir Henry Seymour Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge
Cripps, Charles Alfred Knowles, Lees Sir Ridley, S. Forde, Bethnal Green
Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Lawson. John Grant(Yorks. N.R Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cust, Henry John C. Lee, ArthuaH (Hants., Fareham Robinson, Brooke
Dalkeith, Earl of Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Legge, Col. Hon, Heneage Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Davenport, W. Bromley- Llewdlyn, Evan Henry Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Davies, SiriforatioD.(Chatham Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Round, Rt. Hon. James
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham Royds, Clement Molynenx
Dickson, Charles Scott Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Dimsdale, Rt. Hon. Sir Joseph C. Lonsdale, John Brownlce Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lowe, Francis William Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Samuel, Sir HarryS.(Limehouse
Doogan, P. C. Loyd, Archie Kirkman Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Dorington, Rt. Hon. SirJohn E Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Seton-Karr, Sir Henry
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth Sharpe, William Edward T.
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Macdona, John Cumming Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. SirJ. (Manc'r Maconochie, A. W. Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. M'Iver, Sir Lewis(Edinburgh W Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Spear, John Ward
Fisher, William Hayes Manners, Lord Cecil Stanley, Edward Jas.(Somerset
FitzGeralfl, Sir Robert Penrose- Massey-Mainwaring, Hn.W. F. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Maxwell, RtHn SirHE(Wigt'n Stone, Sir Benjamin
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Melville, Beresford Valentine Stroyan, John
Flower, Sir Ernest Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Forster, Henry William Mildmay, Francis Bingham Talbot, Rt. Hn. J G (Oxf'dUniv.
Foster, Philip S(Warwick, S.W.) Molesworth, Sir Lewis Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Galloway, William Johnson Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Thompson, Dr EC(Monagh'n, N.
Gardner, Ernest Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Thornton, Percy M
Gartit, William Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Morgan, David J(Walthamstow Tuff, Charles
Gordon, Hn. J.E. (Elgin & Nairn Morpeth, Viscount Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Goulding, Edward Alfred Morrell, George Herbert Valentia, Viscount
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Vincent, Col. Sir C E H(Sheffield
Green, Walford D.(Wedncsbury Mount, William Arthur Walker, Col. William Hall
Greene, Sir E W(B'ryS. Edm'nds Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Wavle, Colonel C. E.
Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Murray, Rt. HnAGraham(Bute Webb, Colonel William George
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. Murray, fCharles J. (Coventry) Welby, Lt.-Col. A C E(Taunton
Gretton, John Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Whiteley, H.(Ashton und. Lyne
Groves, James Grimble Nannetti, Joseph P. Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Hall, Edward Marshall Newdegate, Francis A. N. Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Nicholson, William Graham Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N.) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Hare, Thomas Leigh Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Harris, Dr. Fredk. R. (Dulwich O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Haslam, Sir Alfred S. O'Dowd, John
Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir
Hay, Hon. Claude George Parker, Sir Gilbert Alexander Acland-Hood
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Parkes, Ebenezer and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Heath, James(Staffords., N.W.) Pell, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Ashton, Thomas Gair Barran, Rowland Hirst
Ainsworth, john Stirling Asquith, Rt. Hn. HerbertHenry Beaumont, Went worth C. B.
Allen, Charles P. Atherley-Jones, L. Bell, Richard
Asher, Alexander Barlow, John Emmott Beim, John Williams
Boland, John Harwood, George Partington, Oswald
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Hayden, John Patrick Paulton, James Mellor
Brigg, John Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Broadhurst, Henry Hleme, Norvai Watson Perks, Robert William
Bryce, BA. Hon. James Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Pirie, Duncan V.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Higham, John Sharps Power, Partick Joseph
Burt, Thomas Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. Price, Robert John
Caldwell, James Holland, Sir William Henry Priestly, Arthur
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Horniman, Frederick John Rea, Russell
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Rickett, J. Compton
Channing, Francis Allston Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Roberts, John H. (Denhighs)
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Jacoby. James Alfred Robson, William Snowdon
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Johnson, John (Gateshead) Roe, Sir Thomas
Cromer, William Randal Joicey, Sir James Runciman, Walter
Crombie, John William Jones, David Brynmor(Swansee Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Crooks, William Jones, William (Carmiarvonshire Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Joyce, Michael Schwann, Charles E.
Cullinan, J. Kearley, Hudson E. Shackleton, David James
Dalziel, James Henry Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W Shaw, Charles Edward (Staffor-
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Kilbride, Denis Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.)
Davies, M. Vaughan-)Cardigan Lambert, George Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Delany, William Langley, Batty Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W. Stanhope, Hon. James Philip
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Sullivan, Donal
Duncan, J. Hastings Layland-Barratt, Francis Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Edwards, Frank Leigh, Sir Joseph Tennant, Harold John
Elibank, Master of Levy, Maurice Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Lewis, John Herbert Tomkinson, James
Evans, Sir Francis H(Maidstone Lloyd-George, David Toultnin, George
Eve, Harry Trelawney Lough, Thomas Ure, Alexander
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Lyell, Charles Henry Wallace, Robert
Farrell, James Patrick Macnarmara, Dr. Thomas J. Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S.)
Fenwick, Charles MacVeagh, Jeremiah Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond M'Kenna, Reginald Weir, James Gallaway
Flavin, Michael Joseph Mansfield, Horace Rendall White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Markham, Arthur Basil Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)
Free-manThomas, Captain F. Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N. Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John Moulton, John Fletcher Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Goddard, Daniel Ford Murphy, John Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir E. (Berwick) Hewnes, Sir George Woodhouse, SirJ T (Hudd'rsf'd
Griffith, Ellis J. Norman, Henry Yoxall, James Henry
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Nussey, Thomas Willans
Hammond, John O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.
Harcourt, Lewis V. (Rossendale O'Malley, William Slack and Mr. J. H.
Hardie, J Keir(Merthry Tydvil) O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Whitley.

Bill read the third time, and passed.

Amendment proposed to the, Bill. In page 2, line 25, at end to add, the words 'if on the division of the amount to be paid as compensation, any question arises which quarter sessions consider should be referred to the determination of a Court, they may refer that question to the County Court in accordance with rules of Court to be made for the purpose.'"—(Mr. Soltcitor-General.)

Amendment proposed to the Bill— In page 2, line 28, to leave out the words 'purpose of providing compensation under,' and insert the words ' purposes of.'"—(Mr. Solicitor-General.).

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the further consideration of the Bill, as amended, be now adjourned."—(Mr. Disraeli.)


said he thought that as they were discussing the Bill under special rules, a Motion for adjournment which involved a loss of time, should come from the other side.


said he would withdraw his Motion, although he must say that he thought it would be better if the consideration of Clause 4 was left over until the next day.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.


said that the Amendment standing in his name to the first sub-section of Clause 4, had for its object to restore the clause to its original form when the Bill was introduced to the House. The change which had been introduced into the Bill with reference to new licences would deal a very heavy blow at quarter sessions who wished to see uniformity in the granting of these licences. They could have no uniformity as the Bill now stood, as it would be impossible for the magistrates to settle a uniform scheme for an entire county. There might be a different set of conditions in every petty sessions district in a county, and quarter sessions would have no power to vary the conditions laid down by petty sessions. In that way, a district might he denied a licence although it was wanted, as quarter sessions would only have the power to confirm or not to confirm. In the interests of the working of the Act, a definite scheme ought to be laid down. From time immemorial quarter sessions was the authority which had laid down the conditions under which licences should be granted; and that power should be left to them. Otherwise, there would be certain to be friction. His Amendment would enable local magistrates to give their opinion with reference to new licences, and would retain the supreme control of laying down the conditions on which new licences should be granted to quarter sessions. The Amendment found great favour with quarter sessions, and he hoped the Government would be able to accept it.

Amendment proposed to the Bill— in page 3, line 26, to leave out from the word 'of,' to end of Sub-section (1) of Clause 4, and insert the words 'confirming a new licence and of assenting to the conditions, if any, upon which such licence is granted, shall be exercised by quarter sessions after consultation with the justices of the licensing district, where such licence is granted.'"(Mr. Disraeli.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out up to the word 'new' in page 3, line 27, stand part of the Bill.


said that he had an Amendment on the Paper similar in effect to that just moved and he could assure the House that he had not put it down in any spirit of hostility to the Bill. He was sure the Prime Minister would agree that the point raised was one of the most important in the Bill as regarded new licences, and deserved the most careful consideration.

And, it being Midnight, the debate stood adjourned.

Debate to be resumed to-morrow