§ *SIR M. HICKS BEACH (Bristol, W.)I am anxious to ask you a Question on a point of order with reference to the debate which will be initiated this evening. It was, I think, understood by some hon. Members during the course of the debate on the adjournment for Whitsuntide that some opportunity would occur in the course of the debate on the Finance Bill for a full discussion of the new fiscal policy suggested, not for present, but for future adoption by the Colonial Secretary. I wish to ask whether a discussion of that policy would be in order either on the Amendment of my right hon. friend the Member for Sleaford, or on the main question on the Second Reading of the Finance Bill.
§ *MR. SPEAKERNo; I have considered that question, because I was aware of the great interest taken in the subject, and that probably many hon. Members were anxious, if possible, to discuss it on the Finance Bill. I am clearly of opinion that this matter is not relevant to this Bill. The question of the merits of preferential duties between this country and the colonies is not raised in any way on the Finance Bill; and unless the ordinary rules of relevancy do not apply to the Finance Bill I am obliged to rule that such a discussion is out of order.
§ MR. CHAPLIN (Lincolnshire, Sleaford)Do I understand you, Sir, to say that no allusion whatever to the situation created by the proposals which have been made by the Government as to the future would be admissible in the course of any observations made on that subject?
§ *MR. SPEAKERTo prevent any allusion whatever being made would be impossible. I merely say that I will endeavour to follow that ruling, and that I shall watch with, if possible, more than usual attention what may be said by the right hon. Gentleman 328 and remind him if my ruling is transgressed.
§ SIR JOHN GORST (Cambridge University)May I ask whether a general discussion as to the expediency of taxing the food of the people would be in order on the Second Reading.
§ *MR. SPEAKERI cannot add anything to what I have said. I must ask hon. Members to endeavour to follow the view I have expressed; and if I think that any hon. Member is going unduly beyond my ruling I will take care to call his attention to the fact.
§ *MR. JOHN ELLIS (Nottinghamshire, Rushcliffe)I quite recognise what has fallen from you, Sir, but, in view of the expression which you used, that unless the ordinary Rules were put aside, you could not admit of the debate, I respectfully submit that the Second Reading of the Finance Bill stands in a very different category from that of any other Bill. It takes the place of the old Customs Bill, and there are abundant precedents in the records of the House to show that on the Second Reading of the Customs Bill a general debate was allowed on the whole financial policy of the Government, or on anything which had been said outside the House by a member of the Cabinet. I am on perfectly safe ground when I press home in the strongest possible manner that that was allowed on all possible occasions in old times. The Finance Bill, which has taken the place of the Customs Bill, is founded on a Resolution passed in Committee on May 12—
That it is expedient to amend the law in relation to the National Debt, Customs, and Inland Revenue.The Bill is to carry out that Resolution, and, therefore, it does raise the whole question of the fiscal policy of the Government, and it cannot surely be that this House is so fettered, cribbed, cabined, and confined [MINISTERIAL Cries of "Order."]
§ *MR. SPEAKEROrder, order. The hon. Member is not now merely addressing himself to a point of order, but is 329 now making a speech in reply to my ruling. I have considered all these matters, and I do not agree with the hon. Member in his argument as to the practice upon the Finance Bill. [Mr. ELLIS: Customs Bills.] The Resolutions passed in Committee were only to enable matters to be put into the Finance Bill, and we have now this Bill before us and not the Resolutions. No rules have been laid down as to the Finance Bill which differentiate it from any other Bill.
§ *MR. SPEAKEROrder, order. I have given my ruling, and I cannot allow the continuance of this argument.