HC Deb 23 October 1902 vol 113 cc630-3
MR. WILLIAM O'BRIEN

Mr. Speaker, I wish to ask the Prime Minister whether he has noticed the Motion of which I have given notice on behalf of my colleagues, and whether he will now tell us definitely, "Yes," or "No," whether we are to have a day for its discussion? And I would ask him also kindly to remember that, as this Motion refers to the struggle for the abolition of dual ownership of land in Ireland, on this question we are entitled to speak, not for eighty, but for ninety-five, out of the 103 representatives of Ireland, and for a considerable section of the landlord minority as well.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD or THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)

I will not deal with the question of the section or the proportion of the Irish population for which the hon. Gentleman is entitled to speak; it does not seem to me to have any direct bearing on the principle which I have laid down as having in the past governed the proceedings of this House, and which, I believe, ought to be maintained if its future proceedings are to be of a convenient and orderly character. I have nothing to add to what I said yesterday, but if I am given to understand that the Resolution standing in the hon. Gentleman's name is endorsed and accepted by the Opposition, and will be supported by them as a Vote of Censure, I will give a day for it.

SIR H. CAMPBELL BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)

I do not know on what authority the right hon. Gentleman makes any supposition of the kind.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I did not make any supposition.

SIR H. CAMPBELL BANNERMAN

The right hon. Gentleman said he assumed.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

No. I said "if I were given to understand." I did not make any assumption or supposition.

SIR H. CAMPBELL BANNERMAN

Well, who is to give the right hon. Gentleman to understand? (MINISTERIALIST cries of "You.")

MR. WILLIAM REDMOND

Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister whether we are given to understand that he is laying down a new rule in this matter, which is to be the order of the future—that no time is to be given to the Irish Members for discussion unless the subject which they propose to discuss is endorsed by the Leader of the Opposition? and also I desire to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is not well within his recollection that repeatedly, upon the demand of the Irish Members alone, he himself has set apart time for the discussion of Irish affairs?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I have laid down no new rule at all. I have, expressed what I believe to be the practice. We must really remember that this question of the extension of the Crimes Act has been debated at length in the course of the present session, and that any particular incidents connected with that can in all probability be raised on the adjournment of the House. I am asked as a right to give a day. I do not think I could admit that right without practically violating principles universally accepted.

MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)

With regard to the question of custom, is it not the case in regard to the question of financial relations that a day was asked for and was granted to the Irish Members without consultation with the regular Opposition?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I have never denied that.

MR. WILLIAM REDMOND

Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly answer the question whether it is not a fact that on the question of financial relations and other questions the demand of the Irish Members, and of the Irish Members alone, has been granted? If that is so, why is it only to be granted now if endorsed by the Leader of the Opposition?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The hon. Gentleman must see that the fact that for Irish or any other representatives in this House a day has been set apart to discuss a question has nothing whatever to do with the demand that a day should be given for discussing a question. I shall not grant the demand unless it is made on behalf of the Opposition as a whole, or unless the Opposition as a whole accept and endorse it.

* MR. CAINE (Cornwall, Camborne)

Is it not the case that last session, at my own sole request, a day was given to me for the discussion of an important Indian question?

* MR. DELANY (Queen's County, Ossory)

Arising out of the right hon. Gentleman's various replies to the Irish Members, may I ask whether he will give a day for the consideration of the affairs of Timbuctoo?

MR. WILLIAM O'BRIEN

We are entitled to a final answer, Mr. Speaker. Are we to have a day, or is the right hon. Gentleman determined to stick to his policy of sitting on the safety valve?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

That is not my policy.

MR. WILLIAM REDMOND

May I ask the right, hon. Gentleman, a sa final inquiry, whether weare clearly to understand that when eighty Irish Members ask for a day for the discussion of the affairs of their country the demand is to be refused unless endorsed by the Liberal Party in this House?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR.

Whether they are eighty Irish Members, or eighty Scotch Members, or eighty English Members, it is all the same. It has nothing whatever to do with nationality.