HC Deb 14 November 1902 vol 114 cc1091-5

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of certain annual grants to local education authorities in pursuance of any Act of the present session to make further provision with respect to education in England and Wales."—(Mr. A.J. Balfour.)

It being after half-past Four of the Clock, the CHAIRMAN, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 11th instant, proceeded to put the Question forthwith.


seated, and with his hat on, asked whether there would be an opportunity of discussing in Committee the proposals of the Government which were the basis of this Financial Resolution, and which were only put on the Paper yesterday.

MR.BRYNMOR JONES (Swansea, District)

asked what position they were now in with reference to this Resolution.


This is the Committee stage on the Financial Resolution which is referred to in the Resolution the House passed on 11th November. That Resolution says that the Committee stage of the Financial Resolution will be terminated on Friday, 14th November.


My point is that that Resolution was obtained from the House on the basis of the proposals of the Government which were put down so far back as 23rd July, and that the Government have substituted for these proposals other proposals which appeared on the Paper only yesterday or today.


These proposals are not being passed now. They will come on on Monday.


Can they be discussed?


They will be discussed on Monday.


Supposing they are not reached until such time as the guillotine drops, can we then discuss them?


The first Order on Monday will be the Report of the Financial Resolution; that will open the door to discussion; and, if that is not sufficient, the new Clause relating to the aid grant will be the second Order.

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Cautley, Henry Strother Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton
Aird, Sir John Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Fardell, Sir T. George
Anson, Sir William Reynell Cayzer, Sir Charles William Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward
Arkwright, John Stanhope Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J(Manc'r
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Chamberlain, Rt Hn J.A (Worc. Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Arrol, Sir William Chapman, Edward Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Churchill, Winston Spencer Fisher, William Hayes
Bain, Colonel James Robert Clive, Captain Percy A. Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Baldwin, Alfred Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Flower, Ernest
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A.J.(Manch'r Cohen, Benjamin Louis Forster, Henry William
Balfour, Capt C. B.(Hornsey) Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Foster, Philip S(Warwick, S.W.
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W.(Leeds Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Galloway, William Johnson
Balfour, Kenneth R.(Christch. Cok, Sir Frederick Lucas Gardner, Ernest
Barry, Sir Francis T.(Windsor Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Garfit, William
Bartley, George C. T. Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Gibbs, Hn. A.G.H.(CityofLond.
Beresford, Lord Chas William Cranborne, Viscount Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans)
Bignold, Arthur Crossley, Sir Savile Godson, Sir Augnstus Frederick
Bigwood, James Cust, Henry John C. Graham, Henry Robert
Blundell, Colonel Henry Davenport, William Bromley- Greene, Sir EW(B'ryS. Edm'nds
Bond, Edward Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury
Bowles, Capt. H.F. (Middlesex Davies, Sir Horatio D.(Chatham Grenfell, William Henry
Bowles, T. Gibson(King's Lynn) Dickinson, Robert Edmond Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill
Brookfield, Colonel Montagu Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Guthrie, Walter Murray
Brown, Alexander H. (Shropsh Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Hare, Thomas Leigh
Bull, William James Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Hay, Hon. Claude George
Butcher, John George Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Hogg, Lindsay
Campbell, Rt. Hn. J.A.(Glasgow Doxford, Sir William Theodore Hope, J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside
Carew, James Laurence Duke, Henry Edward Horner, Frederick William
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham

That, of course, refers to the Report Stage of this Resolution, but the question is whether we shall have any opportunity in the Committee Stage which we are now in, of discussing the proposals which appeared on the paper for the first time yesterday, after the Closure Rule had been passed.


There will be no opportunity of discussing the Clause which was put down and has been withdrawn; there will be an opportunity of discussing the Clause now on the Paper.


But can we not discuss this Resolution in Committee?


said the Resolution passed on Tuesday prevented discussion now.

(5.28.) Question Put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes. 191; Noes,46. (Division List No.537.)

Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Smith, James Parker(Lanarks.)
Hudson, George Bickersteth Murray Rt Hn. A. Graham (Bute Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Kemp, George Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich)
Kennedy, Patrick James Myers, William Henry Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T,(Denbigh. Nicol, Donald Ninian Stanley, Edward Jas.(Somerset
King, Sir Henry Seymour Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. O'Doherty, William Stone, Sir Benjamin
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Lawson, John Grant Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) Talbot, Rt. Hn J.G. (Oxf'd Univ.
Lecky, Rt. Hn. William Edw. H. Parker, Sir Gilbert Thompson, Dr. EC(Monagh'n, N
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n Thornton, Percy M.
Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Percy, Earl Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Leveson-Gower, Frederick N.S. Pierpoint, Robert Tritton, Charles Ernest
Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Platt-Higgins, Frederick Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham Plummer, Walter R. Tuke, Sir John Batty
Long, Rt Hn. Walter(Bristol, S.) Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Valentia, Viscount
Lowe, Francis William Pretyman, Ernest George Vincent, Col. Sir CEH (Sheffield
Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) Purvis, Robert Walrond, Rt. Hn Sir William H.
Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth Pym, C. Guy Wanklyn, James Leslie
Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred Rattigan, Sir William Henry Warde, Lt.-Col. A. C. E.
Macdona, John Cumming Reid, James (Greenock) Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E (Taunton
MacIver, David (Liverpool) Remnant, James Farquharson Whiteley, H(Ashton-und-Lyne
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Malcolm, Ian Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E.R.)
Manners, Lord Cecil Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Maxwell, W.JH(Dumfriesshire Round, Rt. Hon. James Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M Royds, Clement Molyneux Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Moon, Edgar Robert Pacy Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H.
More, Robt Jasper (Shropshire) Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Morgan, David J.(Walth'mstow Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (IsleofWight
Morrell, George Herbert Sharpe, William Edward T. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Sinclair, Louis (Romford) Sir Alexander Acland-
Mount, William Arthur Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) Hood and Mr. Anstruther.
Allan, Sir William (Gateshead) Jacoby, James Alfred Shipman, Dr. John G.
Ashton, Thomas Gair Jones, David Brynmor(Sw'nsea Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Atherley-Jones, L. Lewis, John Herbert Tennant, Harold John
Brigg, John Markham, Arthur Basil Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Burns, John Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Caldwell, James Newnes, Sir George Thomson, F. W. York, W.R.)
Cameron, Robert Norton, Capt. Cecil William Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Craig, Robert Hunter Philipps, John Wynford Weir, James Galloway
Cremer, William Randal Pickard, Benjamin White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Pirie, Duncan V. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Evans, Sir Francis H(Maidstone Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Robson, William Snowdon Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) Roe, Sir Thomas
Furness, Sir Christopher Runciman, Walter
Harmsworth, R. Leicester Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- Schwann, Charles E. Mr. Wallace and Mr.
Horniman, Frederick John Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) Ellis Griffith.

Resolution to be reported upon Monday next.