HC Deb 08 December 1902 vol 116 cc240-4
SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

I desire to ask the right hon. Gentleman a question as to the business of the House. Somewhat to my surprise I find on the Notice Paper a Motion by the right hon. Gentleman to suspend the Twelve o'clock Rule, apparently with the intention of concluding the Committee stage of the London Water Bill tonight. May I say that the attendance in the House on Friday was somewhat slack. In that slackness I include myself. But I was present while an arrangement was made as to the provisions of the Bill with respect to the Water Board. I was not, however, aware of the intention to finish the Committee stage tonight; and as there is considerable feeling that if such a course were adopted, adequate time will not be given for the discussion of the Amendments, which are substantial and not at all obstructive, I hope the right hon. Gentleman will reconsider the matter, and give a little more time for the Committee stage of the Bill.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate the extreme difficulty of the position of the Leader of the House in attempting to arrange business if this kind of appeal is made to him from the Front Opposition Bench on Monday, against an arrangement made with the Front Opposition Bench on Friday.

MR. LOUGH

I knew nothing about it.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The hon. Member is not yet on the Front Bench. There was one of those friendly, and, I think, most useful arrangements made, which included two things with regard to today, namely, that the Twelve o'clock Rule should besuspended by the general consent of both sides, and that the Committee stage of the Water Bill should be concluded before the House rose, and for that arrangement, if I may use the phrase, there was "value received."

AN HON. MEMBER

No.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I think it is generally admitted, notwithstanding the dissent of the hon. Member for West Islington.

MR. LOUGH

I said nothing, but still I think it.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

My right hon. friend in charge of the Bill said that if a friendly understanding of that character could be assented to, he was prepared to agree to certain changes in the measure.

MR. LOUGH

He never said it openly.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR (continuing)

I think it would be deplorable if any arrangement with my hon. friend, come to under these circumstances should be departed from a few hours after it was made. Now that I have had an opportunity of acquainting the right hon. Gentleman with the facts, I hope he will not press his demand.

Mr. SYDNEY BUXTON () Tower Hamlets, Poplar

I desire to make a personal explanation, as I was in a sense responsible for the arrangement. As my right hon. friend the Leader of the Opposition has said, the attendance on Friday was slack, and necessarily so, with the result that in coming to the arrangement I was, to a certain extent, left to my own resources. I believe that, with the exception of an hon. friend who represents a London constituency, every Member on the Opposition side who has taken an active part in the discussion of the Bill endorsed my action—indeed, I did not take it without their endorsement. My desire was to get the Bill improved, and as we had been met in the most friendly way by the Minister in charge of the Bill, I thought I was justified in coming to some arrangement.

But I am bound to say that I owe an apology to my right hon. friend the Leader of the Opposition in not having consulted him before making that arrangement, and for that error of judgment I heartily apologise. My object at the moment was to improve the Bill, but I quite agree that I did not take a proper view of the position.

MR. LOUGH

Hear, hear.

MR. SYDNEY BUXTON

I am not going to apologise to my hon. friend who has interrupted. I hope that, in the circumstances, the Leader of the House will see his way to postpone the suspension of the Twelve o'clock Rule, and allot the Morning Sitting tomorrow also to the Bill.

MR. LOUGH

Can the First Lord of the Treasury say whether the arrangement includes the subsequent stages of the Bill?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Yes, it does.

MR. LOUGH

I know nothing about it.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The hon. Gentleman should seek for information from his own Front Bench. In addition to the finishing of the Committee Stage tonight, it was arranged that the Report Stage and Third Reading should be taken tomorrow.

MR. LOUGH

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean to stick to any such arrangement? It is physically absolutely impossible.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Yes, I propose to stick to the arrangement made between the two sides of the House.

Sir H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

What other business will be taken during the week?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I think the House is bound to stick to the substance of the arrangement with respect to the London Water Bill. But if it will mitigate feeling, I will consent to the postponement of the Report stage and Third Reading from Tuesday to Wednesday. In that event, I shall take the Militia and Yeomanry Bill tomorrow at the Morning Sitting, and at the Evening Sitting the Committee stage of the Uganda Railway Resolution. I may venture to suggest, perhaps, that the discussion of the general principle of the Railway Bill should be postponed to the Report stage on Thursday, and in that event I will put down the Militia and Yeomanry Bill as the second Order at the Evening Sitting on Tuesday. On Wednesday the Report stage of the London Water Bill and the Third Reading will be the business. As to Friday, perhaps I may be allowed to defer my statement till tomorrow.

SIR. H. CAMPBELL-BANNEEMAN

The right hon. Gentleman is no doubt aware that the Militia and Yeomanry Bill has not been read a second time, and that tie Notice Paper contains three hostile Motions—two being from his own side. It does not look, therefore, as if the Bill can be carried through in a hasty manner between the 8th and 19th December.

MR. LOUGH

How long does the light hon. Gentleman intend to go on with the Water Bill tonight, I hope that if the President of the Local Government Board satisfies the right hon. Gentleman that we have done everything we can to expedite the Bill, he will still consent to give us the Morning Sitting tomorrow.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I am surprised that, after the manifestation of feeling on both sides of the House, and after a specific arrangement has been made, the hon. Gentleman should still press me on that point. I do not think the hon. Gentleman ought to press me further. I will put it to the hon. Gentleman whether business can be smoothly and expeditiously conducted when a member of a Party allows himself licence to throw over his Leader and the whole of his Party.

MR. LOUGH

On the contrary—

*MR. SPEAKER

Order, order ! There is no question before the House. The hon. Member is persisting in treating this as if it were matter for discussion. It is not.

MR. LOUGH

I did not mean to say anything disorderly. The right hon. Gentleman had said that I refused to accept the decision of my Leader. On the contrary, my Leader has explained that he was not aware of this arrangement—

*MR. SPEAKER Order, order !