§ SIR JAMES GRAHAMI wish to ask the noble Lord at the head of Her Majesty's Government a question, of which I have given him notice, with respect to the Minute of Council of Education, which has been laid on the Table this Session. There are two points on which I think it highly desirable that no doubt should be allowed to remain in the minds of the public, and to which my questions shall refer. The first question I would wish to ask the noble Lord is, whether under that Minute of Council it is intended that, as heretofore, no aid should be given to any school that is not in connexion with one or other of the two societies—the National Society, and the British and Foreign Society? And if the noble Lord should answer that it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to carry the aid to be afforded beyond that limit; then the second question to which I would wish to call the attention of the noble Lord relates to a point that I perceive has been recently put forward by a learned divine — a Prelate of the Established Church — who stated that a distinct pledge has been given by the Government to the effect that none but the authorized version of the Scriptures should be used in any school receiving Government aid. I wish to ask the noble Lord whether any limit such as that has been assigned, and also whether the aid is to be confined to schools using the authorized version of the Scriptures only?
§ LORD JOHN RUSSELLI will endeavour to explain to the right hon. Gen- 820 tleman and to the House how the matter stands with respect to which he asks these two questions. I can state, in the first place, that no alteration is made by the Minute of 1846, which has been laid on the Table of the House, with respect to the granting aid to any schools not in connexion with the National Society or with the British and Foreign Society, or with respect to granting aid to schools which do not use the authorized version of the Scriptures. But there have been inquiries made with respect to the intentions of the Committee of Privy Council on these points; and in the answer that has been given, reference has been made to the Minutes of the Committee of Council of 1839 on this subject. Previously to 1839, the rule was, that aid should only be granted to schools that were in connexion with these two societies; and the awards were always made to these societies in the first instance. In 1839, however, it was laid down by the Committee of Council that they would be ready to consider other applications that did not come through either of these societies, but that any such applications must be considered as special cases, and that aid, if given, would be considered as special. It has been lately intimated by the Lord President of the Council (the Marquess of Lansdowne), that he is ready to act on that Minute, and he does not think that the Committee of Council would insist that there should be a special case made out in each instance, but that in any case of application for assistance or aid to be given, he thought the Committee of Council would, in such case, grant aid to schools not in connexion with the schools of these societies. He tilso referred in his answer to another question, namely, the decision of the Committee of Council in 1839, in which it was declared, that in all schools so aided the authorized version of the Scripture must be used. That was the decision made in 1839, and which I believe—though there have been some two or three cases of Roman Catholic schools brought under the consideration of the Committee of Council—has not since 1839 been departed from. But Lord Lansdowne thought it necessary to add, in order to prevent any misconception on the part of those to whom that answer was given, that although the Minute declared that the authorized version of the Scripture must be used in its integrity in any school to which such aid was given, neither he, nor, he believed, the Committee of Council, would 821 feel themselves at all precluded from preparing, or agreeing to other Minutes by which aid might be given to Roman Catholic schools, in cases where they thought fit, from the constitution of such schools, that aid should be granted. Those to whom he gave that information said they understood the present Minutes to confine the aid to schools in which the authorized version should be used, and that when those further Minutes were made known, they would be ready to offer them such opposition as they might think themselves bound to offer. I may say that no such Minutes have yet been agreed to. It is a subject that requires very mature deliberation; and I am not prepared to say that there may not be certain cases of Roman Catholic schools in which it might not be fit to give aid. But the terms of the limits to be set require very deliberate consideration, and these terms of the Minute will be maturely considered, and will be submitted to the House before any aid is asked for educational purposes from this House.
§ SIR JAMES GRAHAMAs I understand the noble Lord, the Minute of Council, as it now stands, declares that no aid can be given to any school in which the authorized version of the Scripture is not used?
§ LORD JOHN RUSSELLI beg again to say, that this regulation is not made by the Minute of Council of 1846, now under consideration, but that it follows from certain Minutes of Council of 1839.
§ MR. T. S. DUNCOMBEwished to know if the noble Lord intended to persevere with his application in aid of education on Monday. He thought that after what had just fallen from the noble Lord, it would be better for him to postpone the further consideration of this question until the further limits to which he alluded were considered.
§ LORD J. RUSSELLThere is no need whatever of waiting for the settlement of these further limits, because everything that will be asked for on Monday will be expended under the limits that are already before the House. I may add, indeed, that it appears many parts of the subject which were done years ago are now sought to be undone.