Organised Crime (Hansard, 14 June 2004)

§ 2. Mr. George Howarth (Knowsley, North and Sefton, East) (Lab)
What plans he has further to tackle organised crime. [178151]

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Caroline Flint)
On 29 March, the Home Secretary launched the White Paper "One Step Ahead—A 21st Century Strategy to Defeat Organised Crime", which outlines how the Government plan to tackle organised crime with new measures, including the creation of the new serious organised crime agency, more concerted use of existing powers, and the introduction of new powers against organised crime.

§ Mr. Howarth
Is my hon. Friend aware, as I am, that £24.5 million, which represents 7.7 per cent. of the total, is spent by Merseyside police on dealing with serious 502 and organised crime? Does he agree that if all Government agencies, particularly the Inland Revenue, co-operated more fully and effectively in sharing information with the police, and if the magistrates courts operated the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 more effectively, we would stand a far better chance of locking up some of the gangsters?

§ Caroline Flint
I thank my hon. Friend for his question; as a former Home Office Minister, he knows only too well about the misery that organised crime causes in our communities. What is important is not only what happens nationally and internationally, but what happens locally, when the drugs and the trafficked human beings hit our streets. My hon. Friend is right: part of our endeavour in creating SOCA and considering additional powers is to make things harder for criminals and to convict more of them. To do that, we need to use every power that we have. That involves sharing intelligence and, importantly, not just locking up criminals but taking away the profits of their crimes.

§ Sir Sydney Chapman (Chipping Barnet) (Con)
When does the Minister expect the serious organised crime agency to be up and running, how many personnel is it likely to have, and what relationship will it have with existing police forces? I hope that that relationship will be one of co-operation, and that the agency will not cream off the best of any particular police force, such as the Metropolitan police.

§ Caroline Flint
The hon. Gentleman raises some straightforward and sensible questions. First, we are working to the timetable of 2006, and we are looking at about 5,000 personnel. He is right to say that we need to ensure that SOCA not only brings together the different groups of people who currently work against organised crime, whether those be in the National Crime Squad, the National Criminal Intelligence Service, the part of the Home Office that deals with immigration crime, or Customs and Excise, but focuses on their relationship with local forces. I am pleased to say that in drawing up the White Paper we consulted extensively—but the hon. Gentleman should not forget that there is still time for him, and others, to add their contribution to making this a harder place for organised crime to flourish in.

§ David Cairns (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab)
My hon. Friend rightly highlights the link between organised crime and drugs trafficking. Given that 95 per cent. of heroin on UK streets originates from one country—Afghanistan—would it not make more sense to redouble our efforts and resources in terms of dealing with this trade at source by doing what we said we would do two and a half years ago, which is to destroy the Afghan poppy trade once and for all?

§ Caroline Flint
My hon. Friend has been a particular champion of raising awareness of the importing of heroin, and in particular of Afghanistan's role as a supplier; indeed, he had an Adjournment debate on this very issue just the other week. He will be aware that we have to work on this issue across government—not only with our colleagues in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, but with those in the Department for International Development. We face a huge task in this 503 regard. What do we do with a failed state that has allowed the drugs industry to flourish? We have to tackle these issues on a number of different fronts, and I am pleased to say that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I recently met Pakistan's Minister of the Interior to discuss some of them. There is a lot more to be done, but my hon. Friend can rest assured that we will attend to it.

§ Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD)
It is not just a question of failed states abroad, of course. Many of us will welcome any attempt to streamline domestic arrangements for fighting organised crime, not least because it is a motor for crime in many of our communities, and distorts local policing priorities. But in working with the FCO, as she says, is it not key to deal with those eastern European and central Asian countries that are very often the genesis of the organised crime that is plaguing our streets? What support is she giving to the diplomatic missions in those countries in order to make that work more effective?

§ Caroline Flint
The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point, and I am pleased to say that whenever I meet my counterparts in Europeߞboth those within and beyond the European Union—organised crime is discussed regularly, along with the linked issues of drugs and people trafficking, because such issues often come together. By making sure that we are working together across Departments, and through the various projects that we are involved in, we are highlighting a number of areas in which we can give added value. That includes providing help through policing, and sometimes supplying equipment for use in airports and other places to detect drugs. I am happy to send the hon. Gentleman or any other Member a copy of the relevant documents.

§ Mr. David Kidney (Stafford) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that more work needs to be done in this country to catch, convict and send down for a very long time members of organised gangs of human traffickers? That would be very popular with, and reassuring to, the public, and it would put an end to a huge amount of human misery and suffering.

§ Caroline Flint
I have mentioned the issue of human trafficking in answer to various questions. It is a particularly atrocious crime, and the work that we have done with the National Crime Squad through Operation Reflex is producing great results throughout the country. But we need to do more on this issue and to alert the public to the fact that, as my hon. Friend suggests, if they are aware of instances of human beings being used and exploited in their communities, they should pass that information on. When appropriate, we certainly should use that method to bring the attention of the public to this crime, and to the successes—hopefully—of the police.

§ Mr. James Paice (South-East Cambridgeshire) (Con)
Today's baseline assessment shows that all police forces have been graded "fair" or "good" in fighting level 2 crime, while nine forces are graded poor at fighting volume crime. Given that, in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Sir Sydney Chapman), the Minister confirmed that the serious and 504 organised crime agency will take 5,000 of our best and most experienced officers out of the system, and that it is expected that 1,500 fewer recruits will be trained this year, can she reassure the House that all our forces will retain sufficient officers to continue to contribute to the fight against organised crime, and to improve on performance in terms of all the crimes that affect our streets?

§ Caroline Flint
Of course, there are 11,000 more police officers as a result of this Government's initiatives to support policing, and we rate highly local policing and its impact on our communities. I thought that I had made myself clear: the new organised crime agency brings together police officers, computing and technical experts, Customs and Excise officers and people from the immigration crime side of the Home Office. A collection of individuals who are already working well together in many respects will be brought together under one roof, so that they can have added impact. Those individuals support that measure, but there is a lot to sort out between now and the date on which it starts. The police have also welcomed it. I believe that SOCA will give clarity to how we address these issues and help local police forces to get a better result and better services—through SOCA—in addition to the good services that they already have under the four different agencies.