§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Charles Clarke)With permission, Madam Speaker, I shall make a statement on two important developments that will help to improve the effectiveness of the police and their accountability to the communities that they serve.
The first announcement relates to the handling of complaints against the police. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is publishing this afternoon a feasibility study of an independent police complaints system. The study was commissioned from the management consultants KPMG in order to take forward recommendations made by the Select Committee on Home Affairs in its report on police disciplinary and complaints procedures, and by Sir William Macpherson's report on the Stephen Lawrence inquiry. The human rights organisation Liberty is also publishing today an independent report on its vision for the future police complaints system, and I welcome Liberty's constructive contribution to the debate on the police complaints system.
My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has previously indicated his sympathy for the principle of an independent system for investigating complaints against the police, and both the KPMG and Liberty reports contain constructive ideas on how that might work in practice. We do not, at this stage, have a preferred model for a new complaints system, but we are clear that if any reform of the current system is to command public confidence, it must involve a greater independent element in the investigation of complaints and greater openness in respect of the result of those investigations.
We are also publishing a consultation paper this afternoon to invite comments on the key issues raised by the KPMG and Liberty reports. That paper is being placed in the Library of the House, along with the two reports. The consultation period will run until 30 June, and in the light of the comments received, we intend to announce by the end of the year more detailed proposals on the way forward.
We are also announcing today a wide range of measures to improve the quality and effectiveness of police training in England and Wales, with a view to improving efficiency, using the most modern training techniques, and strengthening police relations with the communities that they serve and with victims of crime.
On 18 November last year we published a consultation paper that set out ambitious proposals. We want to ensure high quality profession-long training for all police staff. We will put in place common national standards for all staff, which will ensure consistency of service to the public. We want to ensure that police training—which already enjoys a well deserved international reputation—is truly world class.
Training is at the heart of effective and responsive policing. Virtually all those who responded to the consultation paper welcomed the fact that training was being examined and debated. The majority of responses broadly welcomed the proposals. In a Home Office paper available in the Library of the House, I have set out the main comments on each element of the proposals and how we plan to take these measures forward.
We will streamline the existing police training council so that it can advise the Home Secretary more effectively. We will work with the Association of Chief Police 334 Officers, the Association of Police Authorities and the relevant staff associations to establish a new police national training organisation to promote skills within the service. A central police college, building on the work done by national police training, will be established. It will be a centre of excellence within the police service and will act as a standard on both the national and international stage.
We will set a mandatory curriculum and qualifications framework, in consultation with the key stakeholders, which will support the achievement of common standards and profession-long learning and recognition. Regional collaboration between forces on training, driven by best value, will maximise the use of resources and ensure that best practice is shared. We will work with forces to ensure that the opportunities to be gained from greater use of IT and of joint training with other services can be fully realised.
Chief officers and police authorities will produce annual plans to ensure the continuous development of all staff. A dedicated training inspectorate, headed by a lay inspector, will be created within Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary to support and monitor quality assurance. Finally, the existing powers of the Home Secretary will be strengthened where necessary, to ensure that the new arrangements will deliver real improvements.
There are numerous examples of excellence in police training at present. The measures that we are announcing today are an ambitious programme of work to build on this good practice where it exists and secure changes where they are necessary.
§ Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire)I begin by thanking the Minister for giving me early sight of the statement. He will understand that the Opposition will want to comment in more detail in due course on the documents that he has produced.
The Minister will know that the Police Federation and others have called for a fully independent complaints authority. The Opposition support that in principle, but does he agree that it is vital that any system should command the support not just of the public, but of the police at all levels?
The Minister referred to reports from KPMG and from Liberty. Those documents suggest some very different solutions to important issues. For example, KPMG suggests that most complaints would still be investigated by the police, but that a few high-profile cases would be investigated by an independent agency. In contrast, Liberty suggests many more independent investigations. What is the Minister's view on that crucial issue, which is vital to the proposal?
KPMG suggests that the independent agency teams conducting the independent investigations would include police officers, whereas Liberty proposes a team that is basically civilian. Does the Minister accept that suggestions in the media that people such as journalists might conduct the investigations raise important issues of natural justice? Would not it be more proper to use trained investigators with experience of investigation for that purpose?
Is not it crucial that the new agency should be led by people who are seen to be genuinely impartial, and not by people who have particular axes to grind? Does the 335 Minister agree that investigations should be conducted in a highly professional and effective manner, and that the agency should operate in the same way?
The Commission for Racial Equality has proposed recently that it should investigate allegations of racist conduct by officers. Is there not a danger that that could lead to two investigations of each complaint? Would not it be better if the new independent agency dealt with all such cases?
Does the Minister agree that the consultation period, which ends on 30 June, is very short, given the seriousness and complexity of the issue? Is he prepared to reconsider the length of that period?
We welcome the commitment to improved training, but paragraph 7 of the consultation paper states simply that the aim will be to build
a portfolio of skills, knowledge and understanding…Will the Minister assure the House that the proposal is for training in catching criminals, preparing cases, patrolling the streets and practical policing, and that the training will not merely be an AS-level in sociology?The Minister spoke of consulting the key stakeholders about the curriculum, but who does he mean? The consultation document talks about regional collaboration. Will he confirm that that is not a step down the road to regional policing? What assurances can he give us about that?
What assurances can the Minister give that police officers will be able to take up these opportunities? With 2,500 fewer officers in Britain now than at the time of the general election, the number of specials down by 3,500, and the sort of crisis that the Police Federation described this week, can policemen be spared from the front line?
Last autumn, the so-called Milburn letter stated that training facilities for the police would be fully stretched in dealing with new recruits. How can the extensive additional training that the Minister proposes today be accomplished?
Although the complaints procedure and training are important, the public will be bewildered because the Government have not made a statement to say that they will restore police numbers to the level that they inherited, explain how they will deal with the rising tide of crime and back the PC on the beat in his job. The uniformed officer is the bedrock of the police service.
§ Mr. ClarkeI am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's support in principle for an independent complaints system. We welcome that.
The hon. Gentleman's first point was about the extent of independence. As he said, the two reports have different orientations. It is helpful that they have been published together so that we can consider the issues fully. Like both studies, we accept that it is not feasible for the independent body to investigate every complaint. Independent investigation should concentrate on the most serious complaints, which are likely to cover deaths in police custody, police shootings and other cases that involve possibly serious criminal offences.
I agree with the hon. Gentleman's comments about the importance of retaining the confidence of the police throughout the process. He knows that both inquiries consulted the police widely and included representation from the police, whose approach has been very positive.
336 The hon. Gentleman is right that the process must be highly professional, and must be seen to be impartial. It is important to meld those two aspects. The reports suggest doing that in slightly different ways. That is why we are consulting on the points that we outlined.
Racist conduct should be tackled by the police complaints process, as it is now. It will be tackled in the overall approach that we described. I agree that there is no case for a further, separate investigatory process.
The consultation period is not too short. We held substantial discussions in the build-up to the reports, the results of which have been published. All the main interests considered the issues and expressed views. Most of the country—and the police—want to reach a resolution about how to progress as rapidly as possible. That is why I am keen to be in a position to announce conclusions by the end of this year.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned training. The "portfolio of skills" contains practical skills for policing. He made a snide remark about AS-level in sociology—a somewhat alien concept. Yesterday, we both attended the Police Federation conference in Brighton, and serious training for serious police skills was a high priority there. That is what we recommend.
The stakeholders are principally the police, but also communities and other elements in the criminal justice system. Regional collaboration is important because it will provide better value, but it is not a stalking horse for regional police forces.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned officers' take-up and made his usual point about police numbers, but I am dealing with training today. That is the way in which I intend to address the problem.
§ Mr. Robin Corbett (Birmingham, Erdington)On behalf of the Home Affairs Committee, I thank my hon. Friend the Minister for his positive response to our reports on complaints, and on recruitment and training. Will he confirm that he wants to tackle the needs of the police and the public better by providing a totally independent system for the classes of serious complaint that he mentioned?
Apart from police numbers—I understand the arguments about that—our police need better training so that they are more effective in the performance of their jobs and can thus fulfil the growing demands and expectations of the public.
There is an extremely strong case for a biddable fund to enable police forces throughout the country to bid for specific amounts of money to upgrade their IT systems, and thus have one more tool in the battle against crime.
§ Mr. ClarkeI pay tribute to my hon. Friend's Select Committee for the work that it has done, which has substantially informed our conclusions. First, we need a complaints system that has the confidence of both the police and the community, and that is what we are working towards. Secondly, training is critical. Both the public and the police are looking for better trained police to deal with a highly modern and rapidly changing environment—whether to deal with technological change, investigative change of the type that has been mentioned, or victims of crime. There are a range of different issues. The police want training. It is our job to provide it.
337 There is a case for a biddable fund of the type that my hon. Friend mentioned for information and communications technology. ICT training is an important element in all this. He will be aware of the significant investment—£40 million—that we announced a few months ago, to give proper intelligence systems to all police forces in Britain and to accelerate work on those issues.
§ Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark, North and Bermondsey)Like others, I welcome the Government's progress as outlined in the Minister's two mini-statements. Will he confirm that all complaints will be recorded and investigated, and that doing so will not be at the discretion of the police? Will he also confirm that in the investigations, as well as experts there will be a lay element representative of the ordinary public, so that they may have continuing confidence?
There will be a great cost saving because of the reduction in cases taken up against the police, and that must be taken into account when we cost a decent complaints system. Will the Minister confirm that as a result of this procedure, subject to the usual constraints about the programme, we should be able to legislate in the coming financial year?
Finally, on complaints, will the Minister tell the House whether he still intends to consider matters that have been the cause for complaint in previous allegations, which are regarded as not having been adequately investigated, and are still the cause of considerable disquiet about both the old and the present system?
Of course good training is required, but as we both heard yesterday from the police—as we always do—if we do not recruit and retain enough police officers, all the training in the world is of little worth.
Will the Minister consider seriously whether the Government will accept the royal commission proposal—the idea of a standing conference on police matters, so that we may continuously receive advice from the police, the public and politicians on best training, best practice and recruitment? Will he urgently ensure that an independent review takes place of the police numbers that we need in England and Wales, so that we get the answer before the Chancellor announces the results of the public spending review? It is no good the money being announced if in a year's time, people realise that they really need the 10,000, or 5,000, extra police—genuinely extra—that the public and the police say that they want.
§ Mr. ClarkeThe hon. Gentleman is right about recording all complaints. Both reports deal with that issue, and we need to achieve that system. I agree that we need a lay element in any complaints system. The hon. Gentleman is also right about cost savings. The time that it takes to investigate some cases is simply ludicrous. That would be much improved by having a proper independent system to deal with all these areas.
Legislation is not a matter for me, but the hon. Gentleman is right to say that if we can reach conclusions rapidly, at least the possibility of such legislation being considered for the programme can be raised and discussed. He also made an important point about previous allegations, as is evident from a number of noted 338 recent cases. We will have to consider exactly how to deal with those once a completely new system has been established.
On training, for the reasons that have been outlined, the key is to put in resources. Part of the comprehensive spending review process is to find out what commitment we will be able to make in that direction.
I am not sympathetic to the idea of a standing conference or royal commission, although my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary said to the Police Federation that he was prepared to discuss that issue with the federation and others to find out the best way to proceed. I am also sceptical about the idea of an independent review of numbers. There are serious issues concerning numbers, which are commonplace in debate in this place and more widely, and those are matters that must be resolved in that context.
§ Mr. Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central)I give a strong welcome to what the Minister has told us. However, will he accept the following points? One of the problems of the present system is that it simply is not trusted because it is opaque and desperately slow. Obviously, one issue that must be tackled is the speed with which complaints are reviewed. Slow review is almost as bad as no review.
As for cases that are not subject to independent scrutiny, will the Minister address the fact that no one gains from an opaque system—not the complainant, not the police and not the public—if at the end of the process, there is distrust about whether proper investigation has been done? We must therefore open up the process, even for cases in which, as the Minister proposes, investigation will continue.
§ Mr. ClarkeI agree with my hon. Friend. Perhaps I should have said more about the relationship between training and complaints. The best way of dealing with the issue of complaints is to minimise their number, as the police themselves are dealing well with victims of crime and all those who might otherwise have had a complaint. Strong training is an important element in achieving that. Of course, whatever the process, once a complaint is made, it is critical that all parties, including the police, the victim and everyone else involved, have full confidence in the outcome.
It is true that the opacity and slowness of the system are serious problems. The slowness often increases mistrust. People cannot understand how the process can take so long, and immediately start to draw the conclusion that the police are trying to hide things, when that might not be the case. Everyone will benefit from a much faster process.
§ Mr. Nicholas WintertonI am increasingly in favour of the proposal made by the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) that there should be a standing conference, which would allow a growing exchange of views and an interface between the police, the public whom they serve, and politicians and councillors representing the public.
Will the new complaints procedure give scope to politicians, councillors and ordinary members of the public who are concerned about police decisions to close custody suites without appropriate, proper and full consultation? They are also concerned about the limited 339 opening hours of police stations, especially at night, and their effect on the public and their security. Are all those issues covered? I am deeply concerned that the relationship between the public and the police is worsening, and that people have less confidence in the police than at any time that I can remember.
§ Mr. ClarkeThe evidence goes against that, and shows that the public have confidence in the police—rightly so, in my opinion. Locally, the Government have established the kind of interchange to which the hon. Gentleman is referring. In our local crime reduction partnerships, there are exchanges between police and other agencies, individuals, voluntary and community organisations and so on, about precisely the type of matter that he has mentioned. Good discussions often take place and important issues are addressed. That is a perfectly appropriate way to act.
I am rather sceptical about the merits of a national organisation, as I pointed out to the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes). However, for many of the reasons that the hon. Gentleman implied, we have established local channels of dialogue.
§ Mr. Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock)I welcome my hon. Friend's announcement on dealing with police complaints in future. However, I reiterate my request for an independent inquiry into the current state of play in the Metropolitan police, against the backdrop of parliamentary replies that he has given me since Christmas and the powerful articles by Laurie Flynn and Michael Gillard in The Guardian. Those articles offer prima facie examples of probable corrupt practice by those who are supposed to investigate complaints against police officers.
I draw my hon. Friend's attention to his parliamentary reply of 16 March in response to my question about the cost of Metropolitan police suspensions in the past 10 years. I asked about outcomes—who had been reinstated, who had been dismissed or disciplined and who had been subject to criminal prosecution. I received an unacceptable reply—I am talking not about my hon. Friend the Minister, but about the rather dilatory Commissioner of the Police of the Metropolis.
My hon. Friend stated:
The Commissioner of Police…tells me that the information requested is not held centrally.—[Official Report, 16 March 2000; Vol. 346, c. 266W.]That is not good enough. We have a right to know about those costs. One of my constituents has been suspended for more than three years, without any proceedings taking place. Such people are entitled to due process. Keith Green, a policeman, to whom I have referred before, was denied rights to which, like others, he is entitled under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Keith Pedder has had property seized, including the manuscript of a book on the Rachel Nickell murder inquiry. There is overwhelming evidence that the stewardship of that matter by the Commissioner is wholly unsatisfactory. I want an inquiry.
§ Mr. ClarkeMy hon. Friend is well known for the commitment of his campaigning in relation to the Metropolitan police. His campaign of parliamentary questions has been entirely appropriate.
340 First, there has been a special inspectorate investigation into the Metropolitan police. My hon. Friend will have seen the report, which was published only a few months ago. The investigation raised serious matters of the sort to which he has referred. These issues are being addressed seriously by the Commissioner and by the Government, for exactly the reasons that my hon. Friend is implying.
Secondly, it is somewhat unfair to tar the Commissioner entirely with the brush of those issues. The Commissioner is personally committed to rooting out corruption in the Metropolitan police. Beyond that, he believes that it is critical that the process is carried through successfully if the people of London are to have trust in the Metropolitan police. That is the path that is being taken, and it is one that I wholeheartedly support.
§ Mr. John Greenway (Ryedale)Is it not clear from these exchanges that unless the changes that the Minister intends to bring forward address the problem of delay, they will not succeed? The inquiry held in Cleveland concerning Superintendent Mallon—a highly respected officer who has been praised by the Prime Minister—took longer than two years and cost several million pounds. Like the hon. Member for Thurrock (Mr. Mackinlay), I have constituents who are senior police officers who have been suspended for almost 18 months. No criminal prosecutions are to be brought, but internal disciplinary inquiries continue. Can the Minister give us some confidence, in the light of the KPMG reports, that the issue of delay will be addressed? The old adage that justice delayed is justice denied works both ways. There are many fine police officers now suspended who deserve justice.
§ Mr. ClarkeI wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Gentleman. When I took up my portfolio at the end of July 1999 I tried to understand, but it is difficult to see how the process in so many cases could take so long. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight that. That is why I am personally committed to driving through the reforms as rapidly as possible. That is necessary for everyone involved, including the police. The hon. Gentleman is a former police officer, and he is aware of the debilitating effects on police morale if inquiries hang around. I associate myself with his remarks.
§ Mr. Martin Linton (Battersea)Is my hon. Friend aware that the two consultation papers are closely in line with the recommendations of the two Home Affairs Committee reports on disciplinary procedures and on training and recruitment? Is he aware also that the intention to have a larger independent element in the investigation of complaints against the police by people outside the police will be especially welcomed? However, I would not imagine that even my former colleagues in the press would expect such investigations to be conducted by journalists.
Is my hon. Friend also aware that there will be a big welcome for the concept of a central police college—which, I imagine, rather than handing out AS-levels in sociology, will put police training at the level of university degree courses, where it should be? I hope that in so doing my hon. Friend will encourage the involvement of universities, such as Portsmouth, in the provision of degree-level training for the police.
§ Mr. ClarkeI am second to none in my respect and admiration for the investigative qualities of journalists of 341 all types, and for the accuracy with which they report their conclusions. However, I share my hon. Friend's view that to rely on them as a core element in the independent police complaints system might be going just a step too far.
I shall respond seriously to the point about AS-level sociology. It is a weakness of the current training system that the various practitioners within the criminal justice system—lawyers, the police, and social workers, for example—are not trained together to anything like the extent that they need to be. An important element in the new training regime will be to establish practical training for people who will be working together, so that they understand relationships across the criminal justice system. The training will not be a theoretical schoolboy text on AS-level sociology. Instead, it will be practical training that will bring professions together so that the criminal justice system can deliver for everyone.
§ Mr. Andrew Rowe (Faversham and Mid-Kent)Will the Minister ensure that frivolous or malevolent complaints against the police are strongly dealt with? The police are undermined by that kind of unsubstantiated attack.
As a trustee of the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, may I emphasise my agreement that training across disciplines is absolutely indispensable? In the past, the police have been too much cut off from the rest of society. Given that prevention of cruelty to children is one of the prime targets of law and order, I hope that the Minister will employ widely the lessons learned from co-operation with the NSPCC.
§ Mr. ClarkeI am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's support on the final point. He is well respected for his work in that field, and his support is important.
I agree, too, about frivolous or malevolent complaints. That is one reason why such matters need to be resolved rapidly. A judgment must be made, of course, about what is frivolous or malevolent, and that judgment is not always easy. However, it is important that the system should be more rapid than it is at present.
§ Mr. Marsha Singh (Bradford, West)I welcome my hon. Friend's statement on both fronts. The independent complaints authority that eventually results will improve and promote public confidence in the police, and will be welcomed by the police themselves.
We need first-class training for a first-class police service, but I should like to question the references to AS-level sociology. Our cities contain complex communities and it is important that different communities should see the police force as their own police force. If that is to happen, the police must understand communities and their sensitivities. Unless they do, we shall never reach the position in which everyone sees the police service as their own.
§ Mr. ClarkeI agree with both my hon. Friend's points. It is critically important that the police should have confidence in the system. From the conversations that I have had with police officers at all levels, I believe that he is right to say that the police believe that an independent system is necessary and will assist their relationships with the communities that they serve.
342 As for the point about sociology, I was not talking about the importance of the police understanding their communities, which is essential. I was, I suppose, implicitly criticising the idea that an AS-level sociology course might give the understanding that my hon. Friend rightly identifies as necessary.
§ Mr. Tony Baldry (Banbury)If the Minister had been making a statement today on teaching, nursing or another public service, he would almost certainly have paid tribute to the service concerned. The House will have noted, and Hansard will show, that he has at no stage paid tribute to the police service. We shall not recruit men and women into the police unless they feel that it is a valid public service. Perhaps, instead of criticising the police whenever we speak, it is time that we collectively paid tribute to the outstanding public service of policemen and women, often in difficult, and sometimes in dangerous, circumstances. Unless we do so, we shall never persuade young men and women that the police is a profession and a public service worth entering.
§ Mr. ClarkeI find that an extraordinary remark. My right hon. and hon. Friends and I make it our business frequently to pay tribute to the work of the police. That we should do so is a canon of our existence. The hon. Gentleman should perhaps address his remarks to the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow Home Secretary, who have, in recent weeks, made it their business to undermine the police by attacks and criticisms—something that Labour Members absolutely do not do. I pay total tribute to the police; I simply wish that that was the case across the House.
§ Mr. Tony McWalter (Hemel Hempstead)I welcome my hon. Friend's statement, but I ask him to consider two matters of concern. First, Members of Parliament often receive substantial allegations about the police. Can he assure me that the way in which we can deal with those complaints will be facilitated by the new system? In particular, will we be able to transmit allegations to the appropriate place without it seeming as if we either endorse them or regard them as vexatious?
Secondly, will my hon. Friend assure the House that the new arrangements will protect the police better against malevolent accusations? Some accusations can be co-ordinated, which makes them more plausible than a single, wild allegation.
§ Mr. ClarkeI can give my hon. Friend the assurance that he seeks on his second point. Having an independent system will ensure that malevolent accusations can be eliminated and dealt with rapidly and effectively.
My hon. Friend makes an interesting point about Members of Parliament, which I have discussed with the police. We all, in our constituency surgeries and elsewhere, receive complaints of various kinds. At present, the options open to us are fairly narrow. There is a case for passing complaints directly to an independent authority. We are considering that in the consultation paper, because it is an important means of ensuring that we carry out our duties effectively.
§ Mr. David Tredinnick (Bosworth)Does the Minister agree that towns such as Hinckley are examples of places in which the improvements should be most effective in 343 regional collaboration and joint training. Hinckley is the main town in my constituency, and lies not just on the edge of the Leicestershire authority area but on the county and regional boundary.
Does the Minister agree that there is a danger that some of the proposals might simply be cosmetic, given that mutual aid arrangements and an existing mechanism are already in place? Is he sure that these are new initiatives, not just existing arrangements that are being dressed up?
Does the Minister accept that the key issue, as seen in Hinckley, is police numbers? When we have problems on Friday night, with the night clubs turning out, mutual aid is often not available across the county boundary.
Does the Minister further accept that the previous Government went a long way towards improving the system of police complaints by getting rid of the Police Complaints Board and replacing it with the independent Police Complaints Authority? I do not think that he will want to ignore that fact.
Finally, I join the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Mr. Corbett), who spoke on behalf of the Select Committee on Home Affairs, in saying: is not information technology a cost-effective way of improving co-operation? Are not police forces notorious for following their own noses and having independent systems that cannot talk to each other?
§ Mr. ClarkeThat is absolutely right. It has been a surprise to me, since I started doing this job, to find out how very different the IT systems are in the various police forces. Furthermore, the six criminal justice agencies—police, prisons, the probation service, the Crown courts, the magistrates courts and the Crown Prosecution Service—all have different systems as well, so ensuring coherence is fantastically important.
The hon. Gentleman is wrong about the proposals being cosmetic. Indeed, I do not think that he was really suggesting that. Our proposals contain major new elements. Co-operation between forces within regional boundaries will be driven by best-value considerations and a series of considerations of rationality. That is an active element in the discussion.
I agree that what the hon. Gentleman's constituents and others are most interested in is the number of bobbies on the beat. However, I do not think that that diminishes the importance of either of the two aspects of policing that I have announced today—complaints and training—in terms of the regard in which the police force is held by the people of this country.