HC Deb 04 November 1999 vol 337 cc469-71
7. Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby)

What plans he has to assist small rural post offices. [95828]

The Minister for Competitiveness (Mr. Alan Johnson)

This Government are fully committed to the maintenance of a nationwide network of post offices. We will publish access criteria, which the new regulator will have a duty to monitor and which will aim to ensure that everyone in the United Kingdom has reasonable access to Post Office Counter services. We are making a substantial contribution to the costs of automating the counters network; and the performance and innovation unit in the Cabinet Office is carrying out an urgent study on the post office network. Rural post offices may also benefit from the various rate relief schemes mainly funded by Government and administered by local authorities.

Mr. Robathan

Does the Minister not appreciate the important role that sub-post offices play in rural areas, such as villages in my constituency? Is he aware that many rural post offices are facing closure? I recently visited Whetstone and Cosby in my constituency, where sub-post masters told me that they could not go on for much longer without their businesses closing. Is he aware of the damaging effect of the Government's abolition of the benefits card system, which exacerbates the problem? Given his background in the post office union, is he not ashamed of presiding over such a decline in rural sub-post offices?

Mr. Johnson

The hon. Gentleman is the man who put the hype into hyperbole. As someone who not only represented post office workers, but was a postman for 15 years, I understand the crucial importance of the rural post office network. It is no exaggeration to say that it is part of the country's social fabric. Post offices have closed; the number has decreased by almost 25 per cent. in the past 25 years. As Opposition Members know, the closures are usually due to an inability to find someone to take over. We are looking, for the first time, to set in legislation access criteria that will protect the post office network.

I remind the House that the Opposition's solution to the problem of retaining the rural post office network was to split the Post Office Counters network—from which 21 per cent. of income is derived—from the rest of the Post Office, leaving it completely separate. The rural post office network is safe in the Government's hands.

Mr. Peter L. Pike (Burnley)

As my hon. Friend said, post offices are crucial to rural areas. However, they should maintain a full range of services. Therefore, is not the guaranteed network system the best way to ensure that they will serve us well into the next century and provide the essential services that people in rural areas need?

Mr. Johnson

My hon. Friend is correct. I remind him of the terms of reference for the performance and innovation unit report on the post office network: to identify the contribution made by post offices to the vitality of local communities; to consider how best the post office network can contribute to the Government's objectives; and to formulate objectives for the post office network. I am taking over from my right hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield (Mr. McCartney) as chairman of the Horizon working group, whose specific job is to identify new areas of work and ensure that post offices can offer even better services to the communities that they serve.

Mrs. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton)

Given that, in 2003, the average sub-post office will suffer a drop of 30 per cent. in its income because benefits will no longer be paid through post offices, we were extremely encouraged during the summer recess when, in response to the announcement that Camelot and the Post Office would act jointly in the next bid for the national lottery, the Secretary of State said that that would be a great help to rural sub-post offices. My understanding is that, under the current regulations, when Camelot puts a till, or a position—

Mr. Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)

A terminal?

Mrs. Browning

A terminal. I am always grateful for help from the hon. Gentleman, whose views I respect greatly.

I understand that Camelot looks for at least 3,000 transactions a week from a terminal in a sub-post office. What discussions took place between the Secretary of State and the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport? Unless the rules have changed fundamentally, I am mystified as to how small sub-post offices will be helped.

Mr. Johnson

By 2001, we will have automated 19,000 post offices and 40,000 counters positions, and that will help us enormously. Post office counters are the biggest seller of lottery tickets in the country. We would like to extend that, and during our examination over the next couple of years we will consider how to get more terminals in more post offices so that there are more available to the rural public.

Mr. Hoyle

Will my hon. Friend consider helping rural post offices, as well as urban post offices, by opening a rural bank that may engage people who may not have been able to open an account in the past? That would ensure the long-term future of the post offices, by giving them new work and new moneys. I ask only for consideration to be given to that idea.

Mr. Johnson

We will consider that. It should be remembered that 65 per cent. of villages in this country have a post office, compared with only 5 per cent. with a bank. If we can automate the network and make it more user-friendly, we can help to preserve those post offices and the communities that they serve. One of the specific objectives of the current review is to extend to the financially excluded the opportunity to have bank accounts and all the advantages that go with them, so that they can draw their benefits either in cash or through an account.