HC Deb 24 May 1993 vol 225 cc553-5
2. Mrs. Bridget Prentice

To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what representations he has received on the level of services to the commuters of London and the south-east; and if he will make a statement.

The Minister for Public Transport (Mr. Roger Freeman)

In the four years to the autumn of 1993, British Rail record a drop of 20 per cent. in London commuter passengers. British Rail has therefore been obliged to reduce services. Reductions in the new timetable amount to about 3 per cent. overall, which is half the recent rate of fall in demand. As demand recovers, services will be increased.

Mrs. Prentice

How can the Minister justify the 8 per cent. fare increase in January on Network SouthEast—the highest in the country—when last week peak-hour trains through Lewisham and north Kent were cut by 42 and the Sunday service was halved? Will he tell the House how that will enhance passenger comfort and persuade more people to travel by train?

Mr. Freeman

Fewer passengers are using Network South East compared to four years ago. The recession has caused a reduction in London commuting. As we recover from the recession, demand will increase and additional services will be provided. British Rail, like any other great industrial enterprise, must tailor its services to demand. As to fare increases, I hope that the hon. Lady will welcome the fact that British Rail has for two years been differentiating between lines. Where there is a better service, there are more than average fare increases, but where it is acknowledged that the service is relatively poor, fare increases are relatively low.

Mr. Sims

Many people living in outer-London constituencies rely on train services for social and leisure activities, as well as for getting to and from work. Although one accepts that the frequency of services must be matched to demand, does not my hon. Friend think that it is extraordinary that British Rail is reducing Sunday services to one train an hour? Is that not itself likely to lead to a greater fall in demand?

Mr. Freeman

As I said, British Rail must react to the fall in demand by cutting services, because that is the nature of a cash-limited nationalised industry. I hope that, with the gradual introduction of franchised passenger services, operators will take more commercial risks. I agree with my hon. Friend that one can easily fall into a downward spiral of service as services are cut and demand falls. I hope that we will be in a virtuous upward spiral with private sector operation.

Mr. Harvey

How soon do the Government envisage privatising commuter services in the south-east? We heard originally that most of the privatisation would take place during the lifetime of this Parliament; later, that it might take 15 years; and, on another occasion, that the floodgates were being held back until next year. Now we hear that another 18 areas are to be identified today. Has the Department of Transport listened to the Prime Minister's advice, that lessons should be learnt from the local election results? If so, what lessons has the Department learnt about the speed of this legislation?

Mr. Freeman

Our policy has not changed. We said in our election manifesto that the intention was to have a significant number of franchises in place at the end of this Parliament. I can confirm that the intention is to let the first franchise in the second half of next year. Thereafter, we shall proceed gradually. It is an evolutionary process; it is not a process that involves a great number of franchises being let at the same time. We shall learn by the process. It will take a number of years, and certainly beyond this Parliament. But our policy has not changed. All that has happened today is that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport has spelt out what the long-term plan is for franchising all of Great Britain's rail services.

Mr. Ottaway

I remind my hon. Friend that not all commuters travel by rail; many of my constituents travel into London by road. I remind him also of the complete lack of good main roads between Croydon and the centre of London and that this is the only sector where there is no good main road into or out of London.

Mr. Freeman

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding me and the House of the need to improve road services in London. My hon. Friend the Minister for Transport in London has already laid out the Government's policy on red routes. Both my hon. Friend and I have emphasised the importance of traffic priority measures to help public transport, such as buses, move more easily in the capital. My hon. Friend the Minister for Transport in London will have heard what my hon. Friend has had to say.

Mr. Prescott

Is the Minister aware that the recommendation to Network SouthEast is standing room for 16 in a carriage and that at present the number is about 160? By cutting services, the Minister would at least reduce the amount of time that people spend standing on our trains. When he talks about services, he has to take into account that people are travelling in congested, dangerous conditions on Network SouthEast trains.

Mr. Freeman

I would not agree with the hon. Gentleman that Network SouthEast runs an unsafe service. British Rail rightly places great reliance on safety. This year alone, British Rail will spend about £250 million on improving the safety of rail operations. When public sector franchisees run services, safety standards will be as high, if not higher.