Political Initiatives (Hansard, 21 January 1993)

§ 2. Mr. Skinner
To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on new political initiatives in Northern Ireland.

§ The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Sir Patrick Mayhew)
The Northern Ireland parties that participated in last year's talks agreed with the two Governments that further dialogue was desirable and necessary. I am continuing informal consultations with party leaders about the way ahead. I expect to meet Mr. Dick Spring, Tanaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs in the new Irish Government, tomorrow. There is important unfinished business to be addressed.

§ Mr. Skinner
Does the Secretary of State ever get in touch with the United Nations about sorting out the problems in Northern Ireland? Every time that I am in the Chamber for Foreign Office questions, I hear that Britain is poking its nose into or is supporting peacekeeping forces in several countries throughout the world, including Croatia, Bosnia, Somalia and Iraq. Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman ever consider that one fine day someone might suggest, now that Clinton has been elected, that the United Nations should sort out the problems in Northern Ireland? What would be the right hon. and learned Gentleman's answer?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
The hon. Gentleman is an occasional supporter of United Nations intervention and now he suggests that it should intervene in Northern Ireland. I am a strong supporter of the human rights that the United Nations was founded to preserve. It is because I am determined to uphold the human rights denied to so many people by the terrorists that I support the British Government's policy in the way that I do. I believe that with the support of the people of Northern Ireland, there will be no need to trouble the United Nations or anybody else.

§ Mr. Peter Robinson
In his controversial speech in Coleraine, the Secretary of State described Government policy as being that of a facilitator—they would facilitate Northern Ireland remaining in the United Kingdom if that were its wish, but with equal joy and alacrity they would support a united Ireland if that were the wish of the people of Northern Ireland. Will the Secretary of State come down off the fence long enough to say whether his is still a Unionist party?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
I have sometimes thought that the controversy associated with my speech in Coleraine is a manufactured one. Nothing of substance in that speech had not been said by my distinquished predecessor at least two years ago. There was nothing in my remarks concerning the Union to occasion surprise to anyone. I said that as long as the greater number of people living in Northern Ireland wanted to continue being a part of the United Kingdom, that would be warmly, solemnly and sincerely respected and upheld. If, on the other hand, the day should come when the majority wanted some other citizenship, the British Government would not stand in the way. I find it difficult to see any point of principle that would be supported in the House which would lead to a contrary conclusion.

§ Mr. Maginnis
Does the Secretary of State agree that during the previous round of talks on the political future 484 of Northern Ireland, we pretty well exhausted the process whereby all parties sit round one table and that the next stage must inevitably be a bilateral approach? Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman further agree that at the very end of the previous talks, the Ulster Unionist party put a fair and generous proposal on the table which has yet to be addressed and to receive a response from the Irish Government? Is not it the Secretary of State's wish that the Irish Government should respond positively to the matters that were placed before them? Until they do, it will be extremely difficult to move any process forward.

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
There were times when I thought that the process was exhausting ourselves, but I do not believe that we exhausted the opportunities for meeting all together round a table. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that much useful work was done in a more informal format towards the end. It is certainly true that the hon. Gentleman's party put forward a paper on 9 November and the hon. Gentleman heard me say a moment ago that we have unfinished business to address.

§ Sir James Kilfedder
The Irish Foreign Minister, Dick Spring—who has a distinguished record as a rugby player —has now become a powerhouse in Dublin politics. When the Secretary of State meets Mr. Spring tomorrow, will he welcome Mr. Spring's promise of a new dawn in relations with Northern Ireland, while urging him not to make it a false dawn that would give further encouragement to the IRA and any other terrorists in Northern Ireland?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
I do not believe that any member of the new Irish Government wishes to give any encouragement to the IRA. In that regard, the Irish Government are absolutely in line with Her Majesty's Government. I am greatly looking forward to tomorrow's meeting; I think that I had better leave it to take place, rather than going with extracts from what Mr. Spring or anyone else may have said particularly in mind.

§ Mr. Mallon
The Secretary of State will agree that much solid and analytical work was done during the recent talks. We all welcome that. Does the Secretary of State also agree, however, that, if we are to achieve a far-reaching, comprehensive agreement that will bring permanent peace to Northern Ireland, we must face the real, positive, intractable problems?
May I suggest that, in any future talks, those problems are put at the top of the agenda and faced head on? We should not put them lower down on the agenda and hope that they will go away. If we take such action, we shall be starting from a positive viewpoint, rather than simply postponing the day when a further end will come to further talks, thus inflicting more damage on the whole political psyche in Northern Ireland.

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
The good sense of the hon. Gentleman's remarks augurs well for future talks and for the contribution that he himself will make.

§ Mr. Hunter
May we be more specific? Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that more flexibility on the part of the Government of the Republic regarding articles 2 and 3 would greatly help the prospect of a resumption of meaningful constitutional talks? If so, will he make specific reference to that in his dialogue with the Government of the Republic?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who takes a close interest in the Province. Having just endorsed the principle enunciated by the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon), I think that I would be unwise to allow myself to be led into discussion of particular applications of that principle; but I shall bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said.

§ Mr. McNamara
I am sure that the House appreciates the wisdom of that last comment. We do not want to start discussing the Government of Ireland Act 1920.
Does the Secretary of State expect, following tomorrow's meeting with Mr. Spring, to be able to announce the date of the next intergovernmental conference? Will he be able to discuss with Mr. Spring not only the unfinished business to which he referred, but a firm programme of work in regard to the Anglo-Irish Agreement?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government stand by the Anglo-Irish Agreement, which provides for intergovernmental conferences at frequent and regular intervals. I do not doubt that we shall arrange for such a conference to take place at an early stage.

§ Mr. Peter Bottomley
One of the most welcome political initiatives is the letter that the Prime Minister sent to the leader of the Social Democratic and Labour party about the events that took place in Derry just over 20 years ago. Would not it be a welcome move towards justice—even in retrospect—for my right hon. and learned Friend to announce at some stage that those people should not have been shot and that, following the shooting, the tribunal should not have allowed any slur or cloud to remain over them?

§ Sir Patrick Mayhew
We are approaching the anniversary of a very sad occasion. I am afraid that the history of Ireland is littered with occasions of great sadness which—because they involve deaths—cause regret to all sensible people. I think it unwise, however, to reopen discussion of matters that were subject to a judicial inquiry many years ago and I do not propose to do so.