Defence Expenditure (Hansard, 4 February 1992)

§ 4. Mr. Paice
To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimates he has made of the effect on the reactive capability of United Kingdom defence industries of a reduction in defence expenditure to the Western European Union average.

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Mr. Alan Clark)
We have no intention of reducing defence expenditure to the WEU average; we have made no estimate of the implications of such a reduction.

§ Mr. Paice
I thank my right hon. Friend. Does he agree that in this very uncertain world, if such a reduction were to take place, it would seriously jeopardise this country's ability to defend itself? That policy would destroy hundreds of thousands of jobs in defence industries, including many in my constituency, yet it has been endorsed on no fewer than three occasions by large majorities at the Labour party conference.

§ Mr. Clark
Yes, that is right. That policy has been endorsed by majorities of more than 2 million pounds—[Interruption.]—members on each occasion. It is especially interesting that, leaving aside the damage that such a policy would do to the services by wiping out 10 frigates, four submarines and four squadrons of Tornados, there has never been a suggestion in any of the texts that money would be returned to the taxpayer. In every resolution, there has been a reference to making the money available for other "social and economic priorities", thus confirming that the Labour party is the party of high taxation. Labour regards reducing taxes and defending ourselves as equally sinful.

§ Mr. Rogers
It is a bit hypocritical both for the questioner and for the Minister, who is a representative of the Government of unemployment, to criticise potential job losses under a Labour Government. The Secretary of State has presided over the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the defence industry in recent years. Since June 1990—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question!"] Since June 1990, 74,000 jobs have been lost in the defence industry. Since the Prime Minister came to power, 1,000 jobs have been 119 lost each month. Some 4,500 jobs have been lost in Barrow. What a bunch of hypocritical mealy-mouthed people! When will the Minister stop the cuts in the defence industry or at least set up a defence diversification agency to help people such as those in Barrow who will be put out of work?

§ Mr. Clark
It is always interesting to note that the moment one reminds Labour Members of their party's commitment to high taxation, they lose control of the argument completely and deliver tirades along the lines of that to which the hon. Gentleman has just subjected the House. We regret very much the fact that there have been job losses in the defence industry—of course—and the figure is 25,000—[Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman will not even listen to the reply to his argument it is his loss. The total losses have been of the order of 25,000, but the fact remains that there are still more than 140,000 people directly involved in the defence industry and more than 120,000 indirectly involved. Every one of those workers knows exactly what his likely fate will be should the Labour party ever return to power.

§ Mr. Wilkinson
Is not it a strong strategic interest of the United Kingdom to maintain an effective and comprehensive defence industrial base, in case international circumstances change? In that regard, does my right hon. Friend support the WEU proposal of a European surveillance satellite system to engender confidence and ensure that arms control measures are adhered to?

§ Mr. Clark
It will be increasingly important to ensure that all surveillance is comprehensive and very widely directed. In no sector is that more important than in the field of nuclear proliferation. All countries that are committed to non-proliferation and all the signatories to the treaty must be prepared both for greater resources to go into the inspection process and to submit to greater surveillance.