Education and Training (Hansard, 21 May 1991)

§ 3. Ms. Short
To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has any plans to increase the participation rate in post-16 education and training.

§ The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. Kenneth Clarke)
The Government's plans for increasing the participation rate in post-16 education and training were contained in the two White Papers published yesterday.

§ Ms. Short
I welcome the White Paper that the Secretary of State announced yesterday. However, it was belated and it is a great pity that it has taken 12 years to take some action. [HON. MEMBERS: "Ah!".] Conservative Members may jeer, but we have one of the lowest post-16 participation rates in Europe. That means that our young people and our economy are disadvantaged. The Government should have taken action earlier.
Will the Minister reconsider two points? First, there is a division between the administration of sixth forms and that of further education colleges and sixth form centres. There is a real danger that it will perpetuate the——

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. This seems to be rather contagious. Will the hon. Lady ask a question, please?

§ Ms. Short
I am asking a question. I asked the Secretary of State to reconsider the matter for a serious reason.
Secondly, the Minister is unwilling to reform A-levels in the way that was recommended by Higginson and many others. Will he reconsider that so that we can give parity of esteem to academic and vocational attainment?

§ Mr. Clarke
First, I am grateful for the hon. Lady's welcome of yesterday's White Papers. Like many other hon. Members, she was unable to be here yesterday—she was no doubt engaged elsewhere. She may have noticed that the White Papers were welcomed by those with whom she normally shares those Benches—the Scottish Nationalists, the Welsh Nationalists and the Liberal Democrats. Will she persuade Labour Front-Bench spokesmen to welcome the White Papers and to stop making churlish points against them which are slightly confusing most of the issues?
On the status of further education and sixth form colleges, I believe that independence from local education authority control will enhance the ability of both types of colleges to respond to student demands. I agree that we want both to offer a wider range of courses and to make no sharp distinction between the academic sixth form colleges and vocational further education colleges. We want to continue blurring that distinction.
I have forgotten the hon. Lady's third point.

§ Ms. Short
A-levels.

§ Mr. Clarke
On A-levels, there is a difference between us. We propose an over-arching diploma which people can attain either by achieving the right standards in academic courses with A-levels or in vocational courses with BTEC or national vocational qualifications, or a combination of the two. I do not think that it would be right to scrap A-levels, which is the Labour party's position. We must keep up academic standards and put in place vocational qualifications that reach the same high standards and the same parity of esteem.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. If three questions are asked in one supplementary, we shall make very slow progress. One question please from Dr. Hampson.

§ Dr. Hampson
Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of just how much the polytechnics will enhance their appeal as a result of his resolute decision yesterday to abolish the artificial barrier between polytechnics and universities which, despite the flannel from the Opposition, was always supported by Labour Governments? Will my right hon. and learned Friend use his powers under schedule 7 to the Education Reform Act 1988 to change by order the names of any polytechnics that wish to do that, so that we avoid what would otherwise be a three-year marketing blight?

§ Mr. Clarke
I am grateful for my hon. Friend's welcome for the proposed change, which will be supported by directors of polytechnics, including at least two former Labour Ministers, Chris Price and Gerry Fowler. I shall consider the possibility of allowing name changes in the interim period, but I believe that we shall have to wait for the necessary legislation to pass through the House. With regard to overseas contacts, polytechnics are disadvantaged because they have to explain that they are, in anybody else's language, universities—certainly, of the same standard as other universities. The name distorts students' preferences when applying for entry to polytechnics. I shall take up my hon. Friend's interesting suggestion that I may have powers to act on this issue.

§ Mr. Straw
The Secretary of State spoke a moment ago about the new diploma being over-arching. How exactly will it work? Will it be a relabelling of existing exams such 768 as A-level, AS level and BTEC, will it be a separate examination in addition to those, or will it involve a reform of those examinations together with a system of credit accumulation?

§ Mr. Clarke
It will underline the equal status for the different qualifications by setting out standards that are genuine equivalents, so that they can be recognised by those in universities and employers and by setting a bench mark to establish the equivalents between academic qualifications and vocational qualifications or, increasingly, a combination of the two. I explained that system yesterday and I think that it is perfectly comprehensible.

§ Mrs. Currie
May I welcome the marvellous plans that have been announced for post-16 education, particularly to take colleges out of local authority control and reduce the unnecessary differences between polytechnics and universities? Would my right hon. and learned Friend like to make himself a real hero in Derbyshire, where we have neither a university nor a polytechnic? Will he consider designating one of the colleges, preferably in Derby, as a polytechnic as soon as possible?

§ Mr. Clarke
I am disappointed to hear that I have not yet attained heroic status in my neighbouring county of Derbyshire. I have recently designated a college in East Anglia as a polytechnic, having been advised that it had the standards and comprehensive nature of courses to justify that description. We shall retain quality and I look forward to the day when a college in Derbyshire will reach the right level of quality to become a university, rather than a polytechnic. My city of Nottingham benefits considerably from having within its boundaries a first-class university and polytechnic and I am sure that Derby aspires to the same.