§ 57. Mr. Harry BarnesTo ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met representatives of the trade unions; and what subjects were discussed.
§ Mr. BarnesHas there been any discussion on the low pay of support groups 1 and 2, which have been adversely affected by the abolition of the fair wages resolution, by the weakening of wage councils and by the poll tax? Should not there be a decent minimum wage for security guards, messengers and others within that grade?
§ Mr. LuceThere are procedures to deal with overall wage levels for various categories of the civil service. Of course, under the new policies we take into account the special needs of special categories. There is now a facility for flexible pay arrangements. It is being devised for much of the civil service, including the establishment of the new agencies.
§ Dr. MarekWhen the Minister next meets the civil service unions, will he discuss with them direct entry to the higher executive officer grade? The Minister will remember that he and the Treasury got that completely wrong. Instead of trawling within the civil service, they spent a great deal of money on advertising, but 91 per cent. of the 184 entrants to Customs and Excise turned out to be civil servants already. The Minister should not waste public money. Will he take union advice next time?
§ Mr. LuceI am not sure that the hon. Gentleman is not anticipating the next question; he may have intervened on the wrong question.
The policy on direct entry for recruitment is important. It is important to ensure that there is open competition and that employment is available to civil servants as well as to those from outside. It is good for the civil service—as it is for any organization—to recruit from all sources, including the private sector.