§ 1. Mr. Harry EwingTo ask the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Defence Ministers have had concerning a mandate for the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation negotiators at the forthcoming conventional stability talks.
§ 6. Mr. David MarshallTo ask the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Defence Ministers have had concerning a mandate for the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation negotiators at the forthcoming conventional stability talks.
§ The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. George Younger)NATO Heads of State and Government set out their approach to conventional arms control at their summit on 2 March this year. We have regular discussions with our NATO partners concerning the translation of this overall approach into NATO proposals for tabling at the conventional stability talks which we hope will begin later this year.
§ Mr. EwingI congratulate the Secretary of State on holding on to his job yesterday when all around were losing theirs. Is he aware that that is the second narrow escape that he has had in the past 12 months?
Will the Secretary of State now finally accept the need for demilitarised zones as a contribution towards preserving world peace and reducing the risks of war? Is he aware that, in the next decade, the West German armed conscript forces will be reduced by 40 per cent. because of demographic changes? Against that background, is it not now vital that we establish demilitarised zones and negotiate for extensive disarmament in conventional weapons?
§ Mr. YoungerAs the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government are pursuing disarmament most vigorously and, unlike all their predecessors, are achieving successful results in doing so. We are taking an active role in working out a mandate for the conventional disarmament talks. It is on our text that the discussion is now taking place. I cannot share the hon. Gentleman's enthusiasm for demilitarised zones. They are wholly unenforceable and, therefore, not something that we should approach.
§ Mr. MarshallWill the Secretary of State tell the House whether the European Community's Foreign Ministers have welcomed Mr. Gorbachev's suggestion of a pan-European summit to reduce conventional forces in Europe? Is it only the Governments refusal to include in the talks dual-capable weapons that is standing in the way of NATO's mandate and of an agreement?
§ Mr. YoungerNo, I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The preparations for the talks are going well. Discussions are proceeding principally on the text of the Western proposals. As the hon. Gentleman probably 239 knows, the inclusion of dual-capable systems will depend on whether their conventional role is applicable to the talks. That is not an obstacle to proceeding.
§ Sir Geoffrey FinsbergAs the European pillar of the NATO Alliance, does my right hon. Friend envisage any part being played by the Western European Union?
§ Mr. YoungerYes. As my hon. Friend knows, we are now in the chair of the Western European Union and, in the course of our year's chairmanship, we shall encourage the WEU to make a contribution towards strengthening the European pillar of the Alliance and forwarding the disarmament talks.
§ Mr. FormanIs there any hard evidence available to my right hon. Friend and to his NATO Defence Minister colleagues that, as a consequence of the internal changes that are in train in the Soviet Union, the Soviet Government are now more amenable than they have been over the years to appropriate reductions in conventional weapons on each side?
§ Mr. YoungerThe new atmosphere in Moscow is more conducive that the previous atmosphere to achieving reductions in weapons, including conventional weapons. However, I am afraid that at this stage there is no sign of any reduction, or even easing, in the growth of military expenditure in the Soviet Union. We hope to see that, but there is no evidence of it yet.
Mr. O'NeillDoes the Secretary of State agree that it is a sad day when the French and German Foreign Ministers are prepared to accept the need for conventional cuts of the kind that have been suggested, but the British Government are not willing to enter into the spirit of the new hopes that many have for relations with the Soviet Union? Therefore, will the Secretary of State explain to the Foreign Secretary that there is scope for European initiatives as well as NATO initiatives on conventional talks and conventional cuts?
§ Mr. YoungerThere is scope for ideas and initiatives from anyone involved in these processes, but it would be extremely disruptive of the opportunity to make progress in the talks if we were to start separate talks on other bases at the same time as we prepare for these major and important talks.