HC Deb 17 February 1988 vol 127 cc967-8
7. Mr. Heathcoat-Amory

To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment how many people are directly employed by the Property Services Agency.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. Christopher Chope)

A total of 22,235 non-industrial and industrial staff at 31 December 1987.

Mr. Heathcoat-Amory

Would not those 22,000 people be better off in the private sector? If my hon. Friend has no plans to do that at an early date, will he comment on the more modest proposal to introduce commercial accounting and put the PSA on a trading fund basis? I believe that the PSA has had a report on this matter for about a year, so perhaps my hon. Friend is in a position to announce a conclusion?

Mr. Chope

Sadly, I am not in a position to announce a conclusion to the recommendation of the Deloitte report, to which my hon. Friend referred. I hope that we shall he able to put the PSA on a commercial footing with a trading fund.

Mr. Cryer

Will the Minister say what weight the PSA gives to local authority representations when they put forward projects such as building courthouses, as in the case of Bradford, where the local authority made representations to allow land for a rail link between two stations? That was refused on the arbitrary decision of the PSA. Does he think that the PSA should take into account the people who know best — the people in Bradford, who were elected to do the job?

Mr. Chope

In the court building programme, the PSA acts as the agent of the Lord Chancellor's Department.

Mr. Gow

Welcome though my hon. Friend's announcement is that the PSA will move on to the basis of a trading fund, will he understand that it does not go nearly far enough, and that the best service that could be rendered by his Department would be to bring the PSA, at the earliest possible moment, into the private sector?

Mr. Chope

I understand my hon. Friend's strong views, which are based on experience and knowledge of the PSA. For that reason, they are held in great respect.

Mr. Boyes

Is not the problem in the PSA the continuing reduction in staff—about 36 per cent. since 1979 — which has led to a growing backlog of £145 million worth of essential maintenance work? Because of low pay and conditions, particularly in London, there are problems of recruitment and retention of qualified staff to do that work, which has led to more expensive outside contractors and consultants being brought in. How much is that costing, and would it not be cheaper for the taxpayer to pay the existing staff a decent and appropriate wage?

Mr. Chope

The hon. Gentleman is right in saying that staff numbers have reduced significantly in the Property Services Agency. There were 35,223 in 1979 and only 22,235 at the end of last year. But 85 per cent. of the maintenance work already goes out to private contractors. There is an expanded budget for maintenance work in the next financial year.