Points of Order (Hansard, 12 April 1988)

§ Mr. Ernie Ross (Dundee, West)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I accept that in politics we have to take the rough and tumble, but when I was asking a question of the Secretary of State for Social Services all my hon. Friends heard the hon. Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) accuse me of being a friend of the hijackers. As you know, Mr. Speaker, I am the chair of the Labour Back Bench foreign affairs committee, but I have never in any way supported hijackers. I ask you to ask the hon. Member to withdraw what he said.

§ Mr. Andrew MacKay (Berkshire, East)
Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. It is common knowledge in the House that the hon. Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross) is a close friend of fundamentalist—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. We cannot have a debate on the matter. If the hon. Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) made that comment, which I would consider unworthy of him and unlikely, he should withdraw it. We are all honourable Members of the House.

§ Mr. MacKay
It is common knowledge that the hon. Member for Dundee, West is a close friend of fundamentalist Shi'ite groups in the middle east. To that extent, I said that he was a friend of the hijackers, who also fall into that category. If it helps you, Mr. Speaker, I am more than happy to make it clear that I would not imagine for one moment that the hon. Member for Dundee, West would wish to associate with the actions of the terrorists who are at the moment holding a plane at Larnaca—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I remind the House that we are starting a new part of the Session. I hope that we will proceed in good order and set a good example in the House. This is a place where freedom of speech is absolutely supreme, but we must give each other a fair hearing and not cast aspersions upon each other's characters.

§ Mr. Frank Dobson (Holborn and St. Pancras)
Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. What the hon. Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) said was in no way a withdrawal of his accusation against my extremely hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross). In fairness, I think that you should ask him to withdraw in the way which you usually demand of Opposition Members. When Opposition Members have sought partially to justify what they have said, you have not accepted that as a withdrawal. We think that is only right and proper that the hon. Member for Berkshire, East should withdraw what he said, because it was a vile accusation against my hon. Friend.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) referred to helping me. It is a question not of helping me but of doing the right thing by the House. Will he get up and make it plain that he withdraws his comment?

§ Mr. MacKay
As I said earlier, Mr. Speaker, to help the House, to help you and to help the hon. Member for Dundee, West, I will make it clear—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."]

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. It does not help the House at all. The hon. Gentleman should do the right thing by the House and clearly withdraw the comment.

§ Mr. MacKay
I withdraw the comment that the hon. Member for Dundee, West associates with the actions of the hijackers at Larnaca.

§ Mr. Martin Flannery (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. When questions are framed to the Prime Minister which are of a specific nature and mention detail, has not the questioner a right to receive a proper answer from her? Did not the Prime Minister evade question after question? The answers that the general public and the Opposition have a right to hear were never given by the Prime Minister. What defence have we against that?

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman knows that it has never been possible for the occupant of the Chair to demand the answers that any hon. Member may wish to have. Every Minister and Prime Minister answers questions in his or her own way.

§ Mr. Ernie Ross
Further to the point of order concerning the hon. Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) and myself, I wish to place on record the fact that I am not friends with any fundamentalist Shi'ite group anywhere in the world.

§ Mr. Speaker
I am sure the whole House will accept that.

§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)
As one who takes a different view on middle east questions from that of my hon. Friend the Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross), I do not for one moment question his honesty and total opposition to all forms of hijacking.
Returning to the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery), you, Mr. Speaker, have complained at various times about noise from the Opposition side of the House, but when the Prime Minister absolutely refuses to answer questions there will obviously be noise and frustration from Opposition Members. On many occasions during today's Question Time my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition and my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, South-East (Mr. Nellist) gave details of constituents who had been penalised as a result of the social security legislation. Surely—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. What is reprehensible—the House and the country would think it reprehensible also—is if we do not give each other a fair hearing in this place. It is not in order to shout each other down.

§ Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours (Workington)
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask you to confirm that it was most discourteous of the Prime Minister to march out of the Chamber—she was clearly angry—just before my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Mr. Cook) rose to make an application for an emergency debate on the social fund and the damage being imposed on millions of our constituents?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is plainly not a matter for the Chair. I have no knowledge why the Prime Minister or indeed arty other right hon. or hon. Member leaves the Chamber; it cannot be a matter for me.