Rates (Hansard, 26 November 1986)

§ 10. Mr. Bruce
asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received about the proposed legislation to replace rates.

§ Mr. Ancram
My right hon. and learned Friend received about 750 representations during the consultation period on the Green Paper "Paying for Local Government" and the Scottish Office paper on operational issues. Further representations have been received since the end of the formal consultation periods.

§ Mr. Bruce
Will the Minister acknowledge that among those representations there is genuine concern about the implications of replacing the existing system with a poll tax or a community charge, first, because of the administrative difficulties associated with it and, secondly—and he received these representations from Grampian regional council even when it was under Conservative control—because the system will adversely affect the young and pensioner couples and is much more repressive than local income tax? Does he agree that the Labour party's position of opposing both the existing system and the Government's alternative is wholly untenable, given that it has no policy of its own?

§ Mr. Ancram
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman has read the Green Paper, so he must be aware that among those who will gain from the community charge are single pensioners and single-parent families. Given what he has said in the past about those categories, I am sure that he will welcome that. We have looked closely at the representations that have been made to us about the administration of the community charge and when the Bill 257 is introduced the hon. Gentleman will see that we have taken account of many representations. I know that he supports a system of local income tax with an equalisation grant to make it work fairly. That surprises me, as the area that he represents in Grampian region would cross-subsidise other areas. I am sure that that would not be welcomed in his constituency.

§ Mr. Allan Stewart
Is my hon. Friend aware that I have received an enormous number of representations from elderly and single people in places such as Newton Mearns and Giffnock who are in favour of the community charge? I know that my hon. Friend does not pay much attention to opinion polls, but he may have seen a recent one showing a huge swing to the Conservative party. Could that be because more people are now recognising the Government's determination to push through the community charge Bill?

§ Mr. Ancram
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding the House about the most recent opinion poll. Usually alter the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Maxton) has mentioned the previous one we go up six points in the poll the next day. I agree with my hon. Friend that it is worth reminding the House that under the community charge proposals single pensioners will do particularly well. Over 85 per cent. of them will gain, and of those, 30 per cent. stand to gain over £1 a week. Other single adult households will fare well, with 18 per cent. gaining and of those more than half gaining more than £1 a week. Within that last group are one-parent families. More than 80 per cent. of them will gain from the community charge, with about half of those gaining more than £1 a week. I am sure that that will be welcomed by all those categories and by the House in general.

§ Mr. Eadie
Which Scottish local authorities have responded favourably to the proposed legislation? If it is such a wonderful idea, why is there not a Bill running in tandem with this legislation to make the same wonderful provision for England and Wales?

§ Mr. Ancram
My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State has already made it clear that our hon. Friends in England intend to follow this path next year. That is the timetable that they have set themselves. It is hardly surprising that Scottish local authorities have opposed the community charge proposals, because at present they have a cosy arrangement under which only a minority of their electors pay for their spending decisions. I would be extremely surprised if local authorities were willing to give that up easily.

Mr. John Mark Taylor
Does my hon. Friend agree that the community charge is no more arbitrary than the circumstances in which we all pay the same price for a postage stamp, and that the capitation charge is much closer to the present regime, being a tax on the consumption of services? Does he further agree that we have quite enough tax on income?

§ Mr. Ancram
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend. It is also worth remembering that the community charge will finance only about 13 per cent. of local government expenditure in Scotland. Fifty-nine per cent. will continue to be financed by the central taxpayer through rate support grant and rebates, where the ability to pay is fully recognised.

§ Mr. Maxton
Will the Minister answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Mr. Eadie) and say how many local authorities in Scotland have approved of the scheme, how many officials who will have to administer it have approved of it, and how many other professional bodies who are involved have approved of it? Will he also tell the House what percentage of householders in Scotland are widows who are paying rates at present?

§ Mr. Ancram
A number of authorities have said that they support general or specific parts of the proposals. It would be surprising if local authorities were prepared to give up a system which at the moment works wholly and exclusively to their advantage and to the disadvantage of ratepayers. It is the ratepayers about whom we are concerned. I find it surprising that the hon. Gentleman does not regard single parents and single pensioners as vulnerable sections of the community who deserve the protection that the community charge would give them.