§ 9. Mr. Hendersonasked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will estimate the expenditure per pupil in Scottish schools for the year 1987–88, indicating the comparable figures in real terms for 1977–78.
§ Mr. RifkindIn 1977–78 actual expenditure by local authorities per pupil was £883. The provision made for schools in the 1987–88 rate support grant settlement represents an expenditure of £1,332 per pupil. The figures are at 1984–85 prices.
§ Mr. HendersonWill my right hon and learned Friend say whether these figures are reflected in better pupil-teacher ratios over the same period and state the extent to which teachers pay is also included?
§ Mr. RifkindYes, I can confirm that pupil-teacher ratios, both for secondary and primary schools, have improved during the period in question.
§ Mr. SteelIn view of the decline in pupil numbers over the decade, will the Secretary of State tell us what in real terms, has been the reduction of expenditure on school maintenance during those years?
§ Mr. RifkindI cannot give the right hon. Gentleman a specific figure at this moment. Undoubtedly one of the problems that educational authorities are experiencing is the result of the disinclination to close half-empty schools. They are having to spend a substantial proportion of resources on the maintenance and heating of buildings when those resources could otherwise be used for text books or educational materials, which would be of more immediate benefit to their pupils.
§ Mr. DewarI am sure the Secretary of State will accept that the overwhelming aspect of the educational scene is the teachers' pay dispute. According to information that has reached me, in an 89 per cent. poll the EIS membership 256 voted against his proposition by 84 cent. to 16 per cent.? Does this not underline the tragic blunder that he made in refusing to honour the essential financial recommedations made in Main?
Will the Secretary of State acknowledge that he must take responsiblity for a situation that could easily lead to the return of confrontation and disruption? Will he now accept that it is essential that Ministers allow negotiations between employers and teachers to start? An agreement is infinitely preferable to any imposed solution that could never command goodwill. In view of this overwhelming vote, will he accept that the worst possible result will occur if Ministers maintain their present die-hard stance and pupils are inevitably asked to pay a price for that obstinacy.
§ Mr. RifkindI have yet to receive any official notification of the figures. Therefore, one would clearly wish to consider them when they are made available. I think the hon. Gentleman will be the first to admit that Scottish teachers have been offered one of the most generous settlements that have been offered in the public sector in recent years.
If it is the case that the EIS has rejected the Government's proposals, and if it is the case that, at the recent general meeting, the leadership appeared to reject the Main report, at this stage it would appear that the only thing that has been voted for is a renewal of disruption in schools. I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that Scottish parents and the Scottish public would find that result inexplicable and unacceptable, particularly if it arises out of the Government's offer, which, as I have said, is the most generous offer in the public sector in recent years.