HC Deb 17 March 1986 vol 94 cc2-4
2. Mr. James Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Transport how he intends to monitor the effect on public transport services of full operation of the Transport Act 1985.

Mr. Ridley

My Department's Transport and Road Research Laboratory has established a programme for monitoring the effects of the Act with the help of various consultants. The results will be made public from time to time.

Mr. Hamilton

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people, particularly the elderly, are concerned that when deregulation takes place there will be no late-night or weekend buses? Has he discovered whether, when he has monitored the situation, that is so?

Mr. Ridley

The hon. Gentleman will be extremely pleased to know that, according to my information, on the day when registrations closed about 15,000 bus services were registered. If they do not include late-night or weekend services, the county council in the area affected has the right and the duty to go out to tender to obtain extra services on contract. That is what the public assistance to county council expenditure is for. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will join me in welcoming the fact that 15,000 services have been registered at no cost whatever to the ratepayer or taxpayer.

Mr. Adley

Has my right hon. Friend noticed that since the liberalisation of coach services his Department has been forced to put governors on coaches because of excessive speeds on motorways? Is he further aware that the Metropolitan police are extremely worried and aggravagated about the result that my right hon. Friend's coach policy has had on the routes that coaches use in London, and also on parking? In particular, will he review the impact of his policy on the behaviour of coach operators?

Mr. Ridley

I cannot accept any connection between the deregulation of long-distance coach services and the behaviour of individual drivers on the road. In some cases it is deplorable, but in many cases coach drivers are extremely good. If the coaching industry is prospering and expanding and needs more access to the capital, my hon. Friend will join me in welcoming that, because it produces extra, cheap and efficient services for customers, which is what transport is all about.

Mr. James Lamond

Is the Minister aware that some of the predictions in Committee on the Transport Bill, as it was, are already coming to fruition? Is he aware that there are thousands of redundancies among transport workers, that many small villages are to be left without bus services, that fares are already forecast to increase and, all in all, that this is the biggest fiasco over which even he has presided?

Mr. Ridley

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that many of the forecasts made are coming to fruition. The first is the 15,000 registered services without subsidy. The second is the extraordinarily successful effect of minibus introduction, which has been a direct consequence of the Bill, and which in Exeter now has three times the patronage that it had before the Bill, is providing hundreds of extra jobs for drivers, and is running at a profit instead of a loss. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman is complaining about.

Mr. Brandon-Bravo

Is the Minister aware that some councils and councillors have a vested interest in ensuring that deregulation does not work, irrespective of the damage that they may do to their undertakings or to the people whom they are supposed to serve? Will the monitoring process recognise that grave danger?

Mr. Ridley

Yes. I take my hon. Friend's point, which is perfectly correct. The monitoring process will not only have a computerised data base of all bus service registrations, but will include detailed studies of selected areas and case studies of particular developments. We shall watch it carefully.

Mr. Robert Hughes

Is there not already evidence to show that the number of services registered is far below even the most pessimistic forecasts, and are in some cases as low as 20 per cent.? Does the Minister recall his statement to the Bus and Coach Council that operators are now free to operate without the constraints of a social conscience? Does that not mean that the policy will reduce vast swathes of the country to nothing more than open prisons?

Mr. Ridley

No, Sir. Whereas the National Bus Company expected about 70 per cent. of existing routes to be registered, the figure is more likely to be 80 per cent. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will cheer at another piece of good news. It is a major benefit that the responsibility for providing socially necessary and desirable routes on social and political grounds is now firmly and properly where it should be— with local authorities, not the NBC.