Civil Service Unions (Hansard, 15 December 1986)

§ 53. Mr. Soley
asked the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met the Civil Service unions; and what was discussed.

§ Mr. Luce
I have informal meetings from time to time with the Civil Service unions. Topics of mutual interest are discussed.

§ Mr. Soley
When the Minister next meets the unions, will he discuss the need for civil servants to have someone to go to if they have a complaint about the way in which they are used by Ministers? Are there not too many examples of the Government putting civil servants in the hot seat and expecting them to take responsibility for what the Government should take responsibility? Will the Minister discuss with the unions the need for such an arrangement?

§ Mr. Luce
The procedures are perfectly adequate, and in a reply during the summer months to the Treasury and Civil Service Select Committee the Government made it plain that we would work out in discussions with the unions a procedure which gave them ultimate appeal to the civil servant head of the Home Civil Service. That will be a new procedure, and once these procedures have been discussed with the unions they should be perfectly fair and reasonable.

§ Mr. Latham
Is my right hon. Friend aware of the poor level of morale among Civil Service staff at both the British Geological Survey and the Building Research Establishment? Will he discuss with his departmental colleagues the need for early decisions on the future of those establishments, so that at least the civil servants know where they are supposed to be going?

§ Mr. Luce
I am grateful to my hon. Frind for drawing that to my attention and I shall certainly look into the two establishments what he mentioned. On the professional side of the Civil Service, whether accountants or scientists, special moves are being taken now to ensure that we deal with recruitment, retention and motivation problems by giving them, for example, pay additions to the basic pay of the Civil Service.

§ Mr. Madden
What will the Minister do to deal with the staffing crisis in the Department of Health and Social Security?

§ Mr. Luce
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services is well aware of that and has already announced, as the hon. Gentleman must know, an increase of 5,000 in the number of civil servants over the next few months. That is designed to relieve some of the areas of strain at work.

§ Mr. Stanbrook
Has my right hon. Friend discussed with the union concerned the fact that all branches of the public service get credit for pre-appoinment war service in their pensions, except when that service was performed abroad? Is that not a great injustice? Will my right hon. Friend please see our right hon. and learned Friend the Foreign Secretary to ask him to remove that anomaly and injustice towards a small, mostly elderly, group of people whose lives were spent mostly in adverse conditions, serving Her Majesty abroad?

§ Mr. Luce
As both my hon. Friend and I had the privilege of being in the Overseas Civil Service, serving Her Majesty abroad, I shall certainly undertake to look into his point.

§ Mr. Wrigglesworth
Does not Sir Robert Armstrong's appearance before the court in Australia illustrate the urgent need for an update of the Armstrong memorandum on the appearance of civil servants before Select Committees and other such bodies? Will the Minister consider accelerating the discussions with the trade unions to complete that review?

§ Mr. Luce
We are slightly confusing issues. At present the Treasury and Civil Service Select Committee has given its recent report and view on the whole issue and the area in which civil servants should be questioned by Select Committees. We are now awaiting material from the liaison committee, and no fresh guidelines will be given until we have heard from it.

§ Mr. Gerald Howarth
Has my right hon. Friend received any representations from the Civil Service trade unions in respect of Mr. Brian Gentleman, who was traduced by Mr. Gerry Gable and accused of being a Czech spy? Can my right hon. Friend tell the House anything about that?

§ Mr. Luce
I am afraid that I cannot. If my hon. Friend could give me more information later, I shall certainly look into the matter.

§ Mr. Peter Bruinvels
Has my right hon. Friend received any representations from the executive of the Civil and Public Services Association regarding the fact that, in the recent election of the general secretary, the result of which is due soon—indeed, my right hon. Friend may know it—21 branches were denied the right to vote in the election that Mr. Macreadie won? Is he aware that that amounted to 2,240 people?

§ Mr. Luce
As my hon. Friend has already said, there has just been a re-run of that CPSA election and we await the outcome. It could be some time this week.

§ Mr. Heffer
Will the Minister tell his hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Bruinvels) and the press to keep out of the internal affairs of trade unions, that it is for trade union members to decide whom they vote for, whoever it is, and that Tory Members, the Government and the press should mind their own business?

§ Mr. Luce
The hon. Gentleman seems to be a little sensitive today. I do not know why. The House and the country await with interest the results of the CPSA election re-run, which will come out this week.